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Re: Flying the Flag

Reply #15 –
It is so interesting to read this debate on here.
We had a player named Waite a few years back. He was regularly the only bloke to "fly the flag" in a navy guernsey.
He got suspended for doing it and the outcry against him was palpable.
 

Re: Flying the Flag

Reply #16 –
Quote from: Woodstock – on
I’m sure I posted this a couple of years ago. It’s still relevant.

The ‘99’ Call on the British Lions Tour to South Africa many years ago by my countryman, Willie John McBride, who was the Captain of the Tour and how he dealt with dirty play against his Team. A real old school Leader. Remember, Union was still amateur back then.

https://youtu.be/hU-c4YyEVMY

It’s a great wee video of him telling the story of how he came up with it. I think it has a place in today’s game. No matter what bleeding heart, group think left wingers say. It’s a contact sport and sometimes lines need to be drawn. Anyway have a watch of it.

I'm a bleeding heart leftie. I did watch it, and that's precisely the sort of thing I referred to earlier. Not to be the aggressors, but be ready to send a message such that it doesn't happen again. i.e play as hard as you like, but no lining up our blokes to try and hurt. There's plenty of contact in our sport as it is. Barely a minute passes in any AFL match when there isn't hard contact of some type.

Re: Flying the Flag

Reply #17 –
Quote from: deags – on
It is so interesting to read this debate on here.
We had a player named Waite a few years back. He was regularly the only bloke to "fly the flag" in a navy guernsey.
He got suspended for doing it and the outcry against him was palpable.

In the media, and from a deash1t coach who kept telling us he had the player's backs, I don't think fans ever gave a flying feck!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Flying the Flag

Reply #18 –
I'm not going to go trawling for the thread, but there was plenty of gusto on this forum at the time.

Re: Flying the Flag

Reply #19 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
I'm a bleeding heart leftie. I did watch it, and that's precisely the sort of thing I referred to earlier. Not to be the aggressors, but be ready to send a message such that it doesn't happen again. i.e play as hard as you like, but no lining up our blokes to try and hurt. There's plenty of contact in our sport as it is. Barely a minute passes in any AFL match when there isn't hard contact of some type.

That is exactly what Cripps was on about, standing up when it happens to team-mates, nobody has suggested handing it out unprovoked.

We do not want snipers!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Flying the Flag

Reply #20 –
Quote from: deags – on
I'm not going to go trawling for the thread, but there was plenty of gusto on this forum at the time.

Trolls?
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Flying the Flag

Reply #21 –
At the weekend I saw a perfect example of the VFL / VAFA getting things wrong on this issue.

A player is lying on the ground face down after a contest, and an opponent ruckmen drops his knees into the players legs and punches him in the back of the head driving his face into the turf. That's gutless Paul Gallen type activity!

The umpire saw this and ran over whistle ready, in the meantime the punched player jumps up and jobs the ruckmen on the chin! So the umpire red carded the punched player for retaliating, even though the umpire witnessed the original events right in front of him!

So the VAFA suspended the player who retaliated for two weeks and left the ruckmen play on! And then fined the team for starting a melee!

And they wonder why fans are sledging the officials, tribunal and the umpires?

It was all caught on video by the way, even the first incident with the umpire in the background looking directly across the players towards the camera!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Flying the Flag

Reply #22 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
I'm a bleeding heart leftie. I did watch it, and that's precisely the sort of thing I referred to earlier. Not to be the aggressors, but be ready to send a message such that it doesn't happen again. i.e play as hard as you like, but no lining up our blokes to try and hurt. There's plenty of contact in our sport as it is. Barely a minute passes in any AFL match when there isn't hard contact of some type.

You literally only took out of my post what resonated and didn’t understand what I am trying to say.  :)

LP and JonHenry are correct. I’m not saying we should be the aggressors, but if you touch any of our boys, by all that’s holy, you’ll never forget what happened afterwards. Ever.

Thats what Culture is. “It’s how we do thing around here.” If you do not understand or accept that, fair enough. We’re all entitled to our own opinions and you only want the best for this Club.

But this is a full contact sport with young men in their pride and that reputations on the field do count and that needing to stand up for your team, club and Members sometimes involves a tussle or two. I’d rather a brawl and a couple of our boys getting suspended, but this rough play with our boys stops, than watching us stand back and be bullied during a 22 week season. There’ll be moments in the game on Sunday when our boys will be tested. Let’s see what impact this player only meeting has had on our players. Not just Cripps. Everyone. What Pact was formed.

Look, sometimes you need to stand up and face the bully eye to eye and smack the guy into the next week. There and then. This is not the School Yard, where you take it up to the Teacher afterwards. The AFL doesn’t give a damn about our Club. You think their Teacher, Bolton, will clap them on the back for standing back and not flying the flag for Murphy, when it counted?  Not a bloody Chance. You’d be commended in house if you went after Mumford. Especially if you were, say a Sammo or Fisher. Suspension included. Guaranteed.
Keep the Faith

Re: Flying the Flag

Reply #23 –
Er, that's my position, just a more expanded version.

Re: Flying the Flag

Reply #24 –
Quote from: LP – on
You've confused flying the flag with Paul Gallen Cheap Shot Bastardry again!

They are talking about responding when some Gallen type thug hands it out or tries to, not becoming a Gallen!

We've been bullied twice in three weeks, and the best why to deal with bullies is to stand up to them in unison!

Further, in my opinion, that applies to the club in it's public media face as well!

Nobody voluntarily gives or treats you with respect in the AFL, you've got to take it or earn it, but it won't ever be home delivered!

Yeah ok, thanks for that....  ::)

Re: Flying the Flag

Reply #25 –
Quote from: deags – on
It is so interesting to read this debate on here.
We had a player named Waite a few years back. He was regularly the only bloke to "fly the flag" in a navy guernsey.
He got suspended for doing it and the outcry against him was palpable.

I think the problem with Waite was two fold:

1 - He would get suspended without hurting the opposition

2 - He missed a lot of games through injury, so adding more missed games through suspension hurt

Re: Flying the Flag

Reply #26 –
Quote from: JonHenry – on
I think the problem with Waite was two fold:

1 - He would get suspended without hurting the opposition

2 - He missed a lot of games through injury, so adding more missed games through suspension hurt

Agree, his actual footy nous was very good, but his aggression was never smart.

Re: Flying the Flag

Reply #27 –
Quote from: LP – on
That is exactly what Cripps was on about, standing up when it happens to team-mates, nobody has suggested handing it out unprovoked.

We do not want snipers!

You don't want a Wayne Johnston?

Sometimes you need to be the aggressor.
As you said, it's a tough game, and if you constantly let others get in first, then retaliate, it will be too little too late, or you end up suspended which is what they are trying to achieve anyway.

Re: Flying the Flag

Reply #28 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
Agree, his actual footy nous was very good, but his aggression was never smart.

The worst occasions were when he did something stupidly aggressive/reactive and hurt himself, it happened more than once!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Flying the Flag

Reply #29 –
Quote from: JonHenry – on
You don't want a Wayne Johnston?

Sometimes you need to be the aggressor.
As you said, it's a tough game, and if you constantly let others get in first, then retaliate, it will be too little too late, or you end up suspended which is what they are trying to achieve anyway.

Of course we want Wayne Johnston, or Leigh Matthews, but let's not confuse brutality at the contest with off the ball hits or dead-set thuggery, aka., The Battle of Britain,  they are not the same thing! Both Johnston and Matthews by the way deeply regret certain acts of retaliation, Clarkson has never stated his regret or apologised!

Further, hoping every player will be like that only see up lifelong disappointment as a supporter! If bastardry and brutality was a requirement of recruitment think of the past players you would have ruled out? Bradley, Sheldon, Doull, Southby, Sexton, Keogh, Ratten, Christou, Pearce, Camporeale, Silvagni, Gleeson, Allan, Ashman, Marcou, Carrazzo, Glascott, Gibbs, Betts, etc., etc., etc.. All walk up starts!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"