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Re: Formula 1

Reply #45 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
Really? Still struggling with this.

Button drives
1. A V8 car that has next to no downforce compared to anything he has driven over the past 15 years.
2. He drives a MODIFIED F1 car that has less downforce than he is used to.
 - He drives them on a track he has never seen.
 - He drives themon a track that is extremely difficult and extremely unforgiving
Track experience 0/10
Car experience 1/5 (V8) and 3/5 (F1) = 4/10
TOTAL = 4/20

Lowndes drives...
1. His own V8 which he has been driving for 20 years setup to perfection to his liking
2. A MODIFIED F1 car that has more downforce than anything he has ever driven
 - He drives both on a track he has done 1000's of laps on if not 10,000's.
 - He knows every bump and every inch of that track. Where to push, when to hold steady.
Track experience 10/10
Car experience 5/5 and 1/5 = 6/10

TOTAL = 16/20

Where did button lose time? The same place lowndes made up time, top of the mountain....which in this case, includes everything from turn 2 to conrod.

There are blind turns and off camber turns over bumps all with a barrier inches from the tarmac. The toughest conditions for a driver to get up to speed in immediately.

Oh, so you know people who were shocked? Good for you. Perhaps after they sat down and realised that....
a) Button was at an extreme disadvantage compared to Lowndes
b) Button hasn't really got a lot to prove to the rev-heads on the mountain and would just be happy to walk away with his life in tact.

Nah cannot accept it, as I said I use to like watching it but I am just a novice in this regard. But the people I've heard this from are Bathurst winners or former F1 crew, and they have no reason to be questioning Button or any other F1 drivers for that matter. They expected a difference but not 7s! This Bathurst stuff all happened in a year when Button was 2nd, he was at the top of his game with McLaren-Mercedes.

All those other 4/20, 16/20 rankings you post are meaningless, plus even if they were useful you have cherry picked worst case data. I suppose that idea comes from those console games you play, I've seen my children adjusting car parameters in Super Mario Bros Racing just like that, were the kids give themselves a nuclear weapon and their opponent a spud gun!. But those rankings are made up they are not real!

I appreciate you might be defending a hero, but their abilities are only judged relative to each other, I think that is why Seb-the-Breaker and Alonso stood out for so long. When all things are equal those two are just that much better than the rest. Seb would drive the hardware to it's limit and if it broke it wasn't his fault. Alonso on the other hand is pure silk and cars go faster when he is in them, he looks to me to be the only current driver who might match up with a Lauder or Senna.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Formula 1

Reply #46 –
You don't have to accept it. Doesn't make it wrong because you don't though.

Point i was making with the numbers is that being familiar with the track is as important as being familiar with the car. Especially at a place like Bathurst.

You are a self confessed novice. So when you talk about settings on mario kart i think novice is an overestimation.

There is a reason why F1 drivers do countless hours in a simulator. Playing those 'video games' to learn a track is a very helpful tool that can not be underestimated. These things are worth millions for a reason.
However, despite that, more than a couple of F1 drivers have openly said they have learned new tracks from the PS3/PS4 before arriving at a new circuit that has just been built.

Why do footy players practice a game plan? Why can't they simply study it on paper and execute it on game day?
 

Re: Formula 1

Reply #47 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
You don't have to accept it. Doesn't make it wrong because you don't though.

Point i was making with the numbers is that being familiar with the track is as important as being familiar with the car. Especially at a place like Bathurst.

You are a self confessed novice. So when you talk about settings on mario kart i think novice is an overestimation.

There is a reason why F1 drivers do countless hours in a simulator. Playing those 'video games' to learn a track is a very helpful tool that can not be underestimated. These things are worth millions for a reason.
However, despite that, more than a couple of F1 drivers have openly said they have learned new tracks from the PS3/PS4 before arriving at a new circuit that has just been built.

Why do footy players practice a game plan? Why can't they simply study it on paper and execute it on game day?

True learning the new track is important.

Are you claiming Lowndes cannot drive an open wheeler on an empty track that he knows well?

Both drivers, that is both, smashed the Bathurst Lap record in the F1 within 0.3s of each other, while Button almost failed to qualify in the V8!

BTW, I've just checked with my associate. He tells me Button actually set the whole event up for Vodaphone and is a keen follower of Bathurst. He was going like a bat out of hell to beat Lowndes, he just wasn't quick enough!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Formula 1

Reply #48 –
Quote from: LP – on
True learning the new track is important.

Are you claiming Lowndes cannot drive an open wheeler on an empty track that he knows well?

Both drivers, that is both, smashed the Bathurst Lap record in the F1 within 0.3s of each other, while Button almost failed to qualify in the V8!

BTW, I've just checked with my associate. He tells me Button actually set the whole event up for Vodaphone and is a keen follower of Bathurst. He was going like a bat out of hell to beat Lowndes, he just wasn't quick enough!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5Zeou2lxZI

Yes, button did know of the track in the above video.

Has he driven on it before? No.

He wasn't quick enough. No $hit. I've told you why that is the case!

What he did say in that video is that usually he can get a track within a few laps, but a track like this he needs at least half a day.
Oh, thats like exactly what i was saying.
Bathurst is simply a complete b!tch of a track to drive on. You need time to learn how to drive on it. He never had it. Lowndes did.

Quote
Are you claiming Lowndes cannot drive an open wheeler on an empty track that he knows well?
No, i have never suggested anything even remotely close to this.

I've met Craig Lowndes before, had a chat and got his autograph.
I've actually worked briefly with his brother.
I've got more respect for Lowndes than just about any other V8 driver in history.
This has got nothing to do with Lowndes.

I have no particularly affinity to Button.
It is not about him either.

The fact Lowndes could actually drive the thing to begin with is amazing.
The fact Button had the balls to go as fast as he did as soon as he did in both cars in extremely courageous.

The simple fact is, it is NOT a level playing field.

1 guy has his favourite car completely setup for his favourite track
1 guy has a car similar to his own but has never driven on the track before.
Swap and you still get
1 guy in a car that handles better than any car he's ever driven, on his favourite track.
1 guy in a car that handles worse than any car he's ever driven, on a track he's never driven before.

Do the same thing on a track they are equally adept at, say Albert Park, and it will be more of a level playing field.

Re: Formula 1

Reply #49 –
Kruddler, it's the magnitude of the difference that is important not the fact that there was a difference. As I understand it, really only 1/3 of the track is the important part, and in that 1/3 Button lost 7s. It cannot be shyness from Button, he drives at Monaco as you have pointed out which is as tight and as scary as any circuit they will ever encounter!

Anyway, you cannot change my opinions as they are formed from listening to industry insiders talk about it. And I am not qualified to argue the intricate details, I do not know them and I am not even sure they are publicly available. The figures released were through the event sponsor and are listed as unofficial. All I know is people involved with the teams and racing at the time had their media face on and were "Very Diplomatic" about the situation.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Formula 1

Reply #50 –
Quote from: LP – on
Kruddler, it's the magnitude of the difference that is important not the fact that there was a difference. As I understand it, really only 1/3 of the track is the important part, and in that 1/3 Button lost 7s. It cannot be shyness from Button, he drives at Monaco as you have pointed out which is as tight and as scary as any circuit they will ever encounter!

Anyway, you cannot change my opinions as they are formed from listening to industry insiders talk about it. And I am not qualified to argue the intricate details, I do not know them and I am not even sure they are publicly available. The figures released were through the event sponsor and are listed as unofficial. All I know is people involved with the teams and racing at the time had their media face on and were "Very Diplomatic" about the situation.



Turn 2 to turn 18 is your 1/3.
Clear to see that there is SFA in the other 2/3's.

You call the difference 'shyness'?

Here is why Button might have some 'shyness'


Again, you learn the track before you push to the extreme. If you get something wrong, the above occurs.

You say button isn't shy around Monaco? No $hit....because he knows the track....which is why i said put lowndes around there given the same conditions and you won't see a 7s gap unless it's the other way.

So, your mates were suprised. Bully for them.
IF this magical times you speak of are correct, it is not surprising to me and are easily explainable as i've discussed. You don't know any better and simply listen to your mate. Good for you. Pass the above info onto them and see what they have to say about it

Re: Formula 1

Reply #51 –
All we need for a perfect weekend is a Ricciardo win!

I think he is quite good in the wet, so he has a great chance if all goes well.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Formula 1

Reply #52 –
Quote from: LP – on
All we need for a perfect weekend is a Ricciardo win!

I think he is quite good in the wet, so he has a great chance if all goes well.
Yep. My Fantasy Footy Team won also so yes Ricca wins the F1 and I'm happy. Would have also liked Chavez to win the Giro D'Italia for Orica Green Edge but that wasnt to be.
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership

Re: Formula 1

Reply #53 –
Aw FFS RBR what were you thinking?
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Formula 1

Reply #54 –
Quote from: LP – on
Aw FFS RBR what were you thinking?
Terrible. But he seems quicker than Lewis, should get passed.
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership

Re: Formula 1

Reply #55 –
Quote from: LP – on
All we need for a perfect weekend is a Ricciardo win!

I think he is quite good in the wet, so he has a great chance if all goes well.

You had to jinx it!

Re: Formula 1

Reply #56 –
Well, just to ensure the world is left without any doubt, Lewis Hamilton has proven himself to be a complete and utter ar5ewipe!

Is he the Monty Burns of F1?

"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Formula 1

Reply #57 –
Quote from: LP – on
Well, just to ensure the world is left without any doubt, Lewis Hamilton has proven himself to be a complete and utter ar5ewipe!

Is he the Monty Burns of F1?


I thought when I first saw it, the crash was 100% Rosbergs fault. Just read now Rosberg has been handed penalty for the causing the incident so there you go. He seems to panic and do stupid stuff every time Hamilton attacks him.
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership

Re: Formula 1

Reply #58 –
Quote from: Gointocarlton – on
I thought when I first saw it, the crash was 100% Rosbergs fault. Just read now Rosberg has been handed penalty for the causing the incident so there you go. He seems to panic and do stupid stuff every time Hamilton attacks him.

Just shows you there is politics in F1 as well.

The ten of thousands of fans booing Hamilton won't be appeased by a quick fix, I'd suggest that decision is more about patching up the appearance of the sport than getting it's ethics sorted out.

Just in time for the British GP! ;)
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Formula 1

Reply #59 –
Quote from: LP – on
Well, just to ensure the world is left without any doubt, Lewis Hamilton has proven himself to be a complete and utter ar5ewipe!

Is he the Monty Burns of F1?



What did Lewis do wrong?

Just got through watching the race and i agree with Martin that it was 100% rosebergs fault.....well....part of which was his brakes failing him, but that has nothing to do with Hamilton who had no way of knowing this as the team said themselves that they couldn't tell the drivers.