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Topic: CV and mad panic behaviour (Read 942307 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #4905 –
And yet anti-vaxxers have used dodgy exemptions to avoid MMR vaccination requirements since day dot. The issuing of exemptions should be closely regulated. Let’s face it, someone with a fair dinkum medical condition which makes vaccination problematic will have a pretty obvious medical history to rely upon; someone who has no history but seeks an exemption anyway should be put through their paces. That's also true of workcare and TAC claims: some cases will be obvious while others will be scrutinised much more carefully. 

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #4906 –
Quote from: Mav – on
And yet anti-vaxxers have used dodgy exemptions to avoid MMR vaccination requirements since day dot. The issuing of exemptions should be closely regulated. Let’s face it, someone with a fair dinkum medical condition which makes vaccination problematic will have a pretty obvious medical history to rely upon; someone who has no history but seeks an exemption anyway should be put through their paces. That's also true of workcare and TAC claims: some cases will be obvious while others will be scrutinised much more carefully.
But they are exposed by that behaviour, it is only a cheat when nothing happens.

It is interesting how Sars-CoV-2 is going to change things, the widespread adoption of rapid PCR is going to allow health investigators to more routinely locate patient zero in all cases of viral infection, not just during a pandemic. Then the question becomes an issue of legal liability, because the chain of infection will be known with each person in the transmission chain leaving a little imprint of themselves on the virus they shed which acts like a fingerprint.

Who gets it from Agnes?
.....
I got it from Agnes
She got it from Jim
We all agree it must have been
Louise who gave it to him
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #4907 –
The notion there's no point imposing a vaccine system because there are ways around it flies in the face of other government programs. The most obvious comparison is to underage use of fake identity cards to gain entry to licensed premises. That has been going on since time immemorial. Rather than taking the view there's no point continuing that prohibition, governments across the world have refused to back down. on the other hand, one would hope that governments take a less punitive approach against kids: treating them as naughty boys and girls is a better way to go.

A similar observation can be made about the "War on Drugs". For over 50 years, the US Govt in particular has been fighting a losing battle against drug use. But no government has managed to make much of a dent in the drug trade. If you want drugs, you can get them. A harm minimisation model would make more sense, but the prohibition model still reigns supreme.

Then you have the black economy. The fact no government can kill off that way of avoiding the tax system doesn't mean it will be permitted any time soon.

You also have systems which are more analogous to the vaccine passport system. Where the vaccine passport system seeks to protect health and life (and encourage vaccination), rules that restrict access to compensation schemes and welfare programs seek to protect taxpayer dollars and encourage working. To me, protecting health is more important, but let's not get stuck on that issue. Rules are adjusted to make it harder to rort the system, often reaching the point of trying to humiliate and frustrate people out of staying within the system. I doubt those who are dismayed by a system being created which seeks to make life hard for those who try to rort the vaccination passport system would be so aggrieved by the strategies used to make life hard for the unemployed or injured workers.  It boils down to saying the good ol' boys and gals who are worried about their "freedom" are more sympathetic than the unemployed or injured workers. 
 

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #4908 –
Just listened to a nurse on the radio pleading with adolescents and other young adults to take Sars-CoV-2 seriously. It seems some of the wards are starting to fill with people who didn't need to be vaccinated because "COVID doesn't hurt young people!", maybe they won't die but that doesn't mean they won't be harmed!

Not sure where that nurse was situated, I missed the start of the interview.

Globally, I believe the long term COVID effects in youth are similar to the long term effects of Glandular Fever or Hepatitis in teenagers, which some significant portion of them suffering very long term health impacts, and even some who may be partially debilitated for life! :o
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #4909 –
Quote from: Mav – on
The notion there's no point imposing a vaccine system because there are ways around it flies in the face of other government programs. The most obvious comparison is to underage use of fake identity cards to gain entry to licensed premises. That has been going on since time immemorial. Rather than taking the view there's no point continuing that prohibition, governments across the world have refused to back down. on the other hand, one would hope that governments take a less punitive approach against kids: treating them as naughty boys and girls is a better way to go.
I'm not arguing against a system, I'm arguing that the measures and penalties in place already for such misbehaviour are enough!

Usually, it's not the lack of a law but the lack of implementation that burns society, a bit like the rules in AFL, eh?
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #4910 –
And I say they’re not enough. Check out the article about the attempt to use Wilcannia as a pop-up Ivermectin trial. There was some Sydney doctor who was poised to write out Ivermectin prescriptions via the TeleHealth system to bypass the reisitance from the local doctors and community leaders. Doing nothing and allowing anti-vaxxers to make the vaccine passport system a joke will result in the general public seeing it as useless red tape. And that’s the goal of anti-vaxxers.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #4911 –
Boris has scrapped the vax passport idea in England, people will get fake passports, the dark web will provide software cracks etc etc for the govt apps. Plus business owners will want every patron they can get given they have suffered financial losses, it gets discussed everytime we are getting takeaway coffees etc from a couple of cafes we go to and they all said they would serve people without vax passports. As is half the folk entering cafes, supermarkets, petrol stations etc dont check in anyway...just dont know how you would police such a system and I cant see police wanting much involvement with it either.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #4912 –
Trying to support your argument with “Even Boris won’t do it ...” doesn’t seem convincing. He’s just a Trump-style politician who’s more interested in selling miracle cures which relieves him of the responsibility of making hard decisions which might piss people off. He’s just the type to say he wants a vaccine passport system so he can then “reluctantly” torpedo the idea.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #4913 –
I'm a bit confused about the UK situation, it's reported as vaccine Passports, but as I understand it they are basically canning travel visas of all types over the coming winter months whether you have a vaccine certificate or not!

But the media like to paint it as a win for those in the anti-vaccine passport stakes, I suspect it'll return when they have another crack at re-opening the borders. My UK associates tell me they have a huge problem now, the re-opened too soon, flooded the hospitals with B and C-Grade COVID cases and as a result people are dying from recoverable heart attacks and strokes while they wait for a bed!

It's all apparently being driven by those who won't get vaccinated, they are now 98% of cases, yet they are happy to occupy a hospital bed for apparently something they don't need a vaccine for!

I get the social media calls for a "tough crap" approach, but I doubt those who sacrifice themselves in the care of others would ever agree to it.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #4914 –
Quote from: Mav – on
Trying to support your argument with “Even Boris won’t do it ...” doesn’t seem convincing. He’s just a Trump-style politician who’s more interested in selling miracle cures which relieves him of the responsibility of making hard decisions which might piss people off. He’s just the type to say he wants a vaccine passport system so he can then “reluctantly” torpedo the idea.
You have to make it work and that means throwing resources at it and expecting business owners to play along too....having a us vs them mentality wont work in business when people have done it hard and you want to throw more regulations at them.


Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #4915 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
You have to make it work and that means throwing resources at it and expecting business owners to play along too....having a us vs them mentality wont work in business when people have done it hard and you want to throw more regulations at them.
Agree, I think there are much better ways to waste money than creating more rules and regulations that won't be implemented or enforced anyway, at least on the commercial side!

But I do make a point of difference about borders, and it looks like here in Oz we'll have eVax Certs attached to our ePassport before long. That is almost impossible to fake for anyone except a foreign government, personally I'm all for it, because I travel a lot or at least use to travel a lot and anything that makes getting through customs easier and faster is a win win! Airports are my purgatory, the plane is an oasis(I do tend to be at the pointy end), and home is heaven!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #4916 –
How's that 43% rating trending Biden?  Be finished in the mid terms

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #4917 –
Quote from: LP – on
Agree, I think there are much better ways to waste money than creating more rules and regulations that won't be implemented or enforced anyway, at least on the commercial side!

But I do make a point of difference about borders, and it looks like here in Oz we'll have eVax Certs attached to our ePassport before long. That is almost impossible to fake for anyone except a foreign government, personally I'm all for it, because I travel a lot or at least use to travel a lot and anything that makes getting through customs easier and faster is a win win! Airports are my purgatory, the plane is an oasis(I do tend to be at the pointy end), and home is heaven!
Agree I think for international travel with passports and anything to with airlines in general it can be introduced and policed properly but at local level cafes, pubs, sporting events, hotels/motels, tourism etc its going to be much harder and more open to fraud as well as lack of enforcement if it is going to cost small business money.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #4918 –
Read these figures today, not sure if that relates to the nurse I heard earlier.
Quote
More than 500 of the state’s total active cases are children under nine, and 85 per cent of the 3799 active cases are people aged under 60.

Of Victoria’s active cases:

563 are under 9 years of age.
647 are aged 10 to 19.
906 are in their 20s.
603 are in their 30s.
Youth don't get it!

There is no need for a tautology to explain that phrase. :o
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #4919 –
That assumes the unvaccinated are monolithic in their refusal to vaccinate. In reality, many will respond to vaccination passports by getting vaccinated.

This is obvious from the article I originally quoted. The desperate search for compliant GPs doesn’t suggest to me that we’re dealing with an army of dark-web activists. No doubt there will still be a rump of hold-outs, but they can be pursued as criminals.

I’m sure when a few businesses get closed down, the message will get around. The law isn’t just something the right-wingers get to use against left-wingers, after all. The law’s the law.