Carlton Supporters Club

It sure is!

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-02-04/vaccine-message-to-anti-vaxxers/13114344?sf242619093=1&fbclid=IwAR21ueKGR0MtkA5WT6K6gWGsGkKjo6GsWvkv9a3FvUe4uBFV6FxyhfwewjA

The problem is that we humans are suckers for the status quo. When life is good, we're hardwired to coast along, and not do anything to disrupt that. It's only when crap (like our health) hits the fan, that we suddenly desperately want someone to DO SOMETHING, ANYTHING, to make it better again.

You're not concerned about deliberately bringing infected people into our country and city to play tennis?

Can I ask about the bit in bold, how do you weigh that?

I presume you come at this from an evidence base, can you share it?

If you were able to obtain evidence on demand, what evidence would you accept that the / a vaccine is safe?

Simple stuff.  The initial modelling was done on every covid positive needing ECMO or an ICU admission.  That meant that people who didnt get treatment were certainties to die from it.  Thats why we locked down to prevent the spread.  Then we got case numbers in the thousands, and tens of thousands with the net result of people who were already immuno compromised really the only ones that led to really adverse outcomes (note this is not true of everyone, but we are likely to take the same approach with administering a vaccine for a net break even here).  the rest have become sick and are getting on with their lives with some ongoing symptoms that are not life threatening (for now as far as we know).  Now I don't want to diminish the risks associated with COVID and i do think we should do what is in our power to prevent these people becoming unwell, but not via injecting everyone with a jab that is both costly and developed so quickly that I am skeptical about it.  I am not an anti vaxer, and you can shut down that pete evans crap right now.

My evidence based perspective is largely formed by an opinion shared with me by an Epidemiologist before we were told that a vaccine was available and works.  He stated, that Covid being from the SARS family of viruses wont likely get a vaccine because we didnt find a SARS vaccine, and that means that any COVID vaccine is years away from being administered.  Within 6 months he is proven incorrect.

Now, call me a cynic, but its my life experience that has taught me to be one, but I think that the global pandemic has caused such a lot of disruption and panic, that the only way for the people who called it one to save face in it, is to come up with a miracle cure that sees it "vanish" as quickly as it came.  This refers you back to my previous point about it not being as bad as we thought initially.  You combine this with a vaccine hastily produced, and my sentiment is very very unlikely to shift about any vaccine they sell me.

So much so, that I might even resign if faced with the proposition of get it or go being presented to me.  I dont say that easily, ive been here for a while, and I like where I am at, but sometimes you have to do whats right, not what is easy. 

I get the flu vaccine every year largely because I have to, to do my job.  Not because I think it works, but also because there is a report sent around if I dont get one. This time, I dont think I will take such a flippant approach for a vaccine to a virus we only really started learning about a year ago.

I'm with MBB on the tennis....its all about money and less about lives,

So really you're asserting you do not think any vaccine is really regardless of available evidence, does that make this debate pointless?

It would be reasonable to declare that position when commenting, it doesn't make you an anti-vaxer but it's not a trivial perspective to start from. What do you want from some 3rd party commenting like myself, are you trying to convert?

Yes, the "life threatening" part is interesting, is that what it takes for an illness to be treated seriously?

A lot of people talk about the fiscal and mental health effects of dealing with COVID lockdowns, what mental health or fiscal effects of illness induced sterility, partial paralysis or paraplegia, anosmia, myopia and the growing list of neurological disorders?

In the UK after millions and millions of cases, the statistical numbers relating to the widespread long term effects are concerning enough for me to say vaccines are worth it.

The report about 10% of cases suffer significant long term issues like those listed above, add to that we now have burgeoning reports of late fatalities from secondary admissions to hospital months and months after the initial hospitalisation. Doesn't that count for anything?

I wonder if the COVID deniers would have been so quick to release their kids to a mild infection, if they knew there was a risk of little Jimmy or Jill becoming sterile. Of course we do not know the long term outcome, but is it worth the risk?

If Trump hadn't been in power and politically smashing the CDC or NIH, we'd have reliable numbers from the US as well by now, the debate would be dead and buried(bad choice of words).

Most of the money is not connected to the crowds, it's TV, so maybe you can have a bit each way provided you do not cheap out and burn the house down in the process!

But I would not leave the firefighting and prevention drills up the organisers, they will certainly take a shortcut as the bottom line pays bonusses, I'd be all over them like a Bureaucratic rash with the threat of criminal charges for any negligence! In that circumstance they will decide themselves if it's worth it or not! Do not let them run the even at zero risk, make them accountable!

No you are asserting that, because it makes that argument easier to attack and much easier to paint me as a Pete Evans type.

Why dont we simply keep our country COVID free for 2 years, and then get some meaningful data about what a covid vaccine means for the nations that have vaccinated, rather than become a guinea pig like the rest?

No, but the only confirmed cases I know of, are back to work, and generally symptom free aside from compromised senses of smell.

Now that in itself is bad enough, but lets place that to the side for a moment.  Lets inject people with a vaccine that we are not even confident works, because the rest of the world says so?  What about our Nurse in portugal who got the jab in her early 40's and passed away within 48 hours?

https://www.theportugalnews.com/news/2021-01-06/autopsy-concludes-that-woman-s-death-was-not-due-to-the-vaccine/57533

its ok, she didnt suffer any adverse reactions, and had no underlying health concerns.  Must have died of natural causes.

Not relevant, but nice try.

Lot of convincing to do to get healthcare workers on mass to take the jab,I'm pro vaccine 99.99% of the time but there just hasnt been enough testing to satisfy all the different areas of concern across the community.

Agree.

I am pro-vaccine. My wife works for CSL and somewhat indirectly helps vaccines get made.

BUT.....there is just something about this whole thing that feels like it could come back to bite us.

Everything has been rushed through. They are still working out what Covid is doing long term and they have no idea what the vaccine will do in similar.

Never get the 'new model' as soon as its out. Let people find the bugs in it and get the v2.0 which will be better off.

I have a daughter who is a RN and family members who are paramedics, none want the vaccine and none of their friends do either.
My son is getting married in April and his wife to be wants to start a family but the info on CoVid vaccine effects on pregnancies/newborns is zero.
Agree on the " new model theory" and in fact even Version 2 might be a gamble given the average time to produce an effective and safe vaccine for most other conditions is ten years. I do get we need it now and its been fast tracked but you cant tell me every scenario in the community has been fully tested.