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Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #2130 –
Quote from: Baggers – on
The grandmother of a work colleague of Mrs Baggers had her Pfizer Covid shot on Saturday night and was found dead yesterday. She was elderly and her only allergy was penicillin. A pretty shattered family.  :(
Sorry to hear that baggers.

When you combine our lockdown approach with the overarching threat of the virus itself, a more wise decision would be to get better data regarding the covid vaccine, and any potential ill effects.

No doubt they will clear the vaccine in time, and say its correlation not causation, but I have heard of people getting quite violently ill post vaccine.  That was from a health care worker in Ireland (via a colleague).  Her Sister works for the NHS over in Ireland.

Add frail and susceptible and it could be a dangerous combination.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #2131 –
Quote from: Baggers – on
The grandmother of a work colleague of Mrs Baggers had her Pfizer Covid shot on Saturday night and was found dead yesterday. She was elderly and her only allergy was penicillin. A pretty shattered family.  :(
Sorry to hear that Baggers, but you can put your mind at ease in relation to the vaccine.

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/science-unscripted/id25342806

Same broadcast linked here for those not on Apple universe.

https://www.dw.com/en/deaths-after-covid-19-vaccines-coincidence-not-causality/av-56527310
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #2132 –
MBB is on the right track I reckon.   There was an "oh F***" moment within the government last week when the implications came home to roost.  Consequently  we were sold a 5 day shut down on the basis that it was required to quickly "knock it on the head".  The reality is that the horse had already bolted and we have community transmission again (e.g QV market is a listed hot-spot now).  The shut down now must continue well past the latency (?) period, as common sense dictates,  but the  situation  all along required this not 5 days.   We were bullcrapted to,  to cover mistakes. It will be ugly Wednesday afternoon after the press conference.
DrE is no more... you ok with that harmonica man?

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #2133 –
I reckon there will be a push to wait for the Novavax vaccine in preference to the other two, its been trialled in the UK and South Africa and found to perform well vs the new strains which is what we are seeing in Australia now.
I watched a bit of Q and A and while the experts didnt agree on much the pro Pfizer/Moderna/ AstraZeneca group did agree that Novavax was promising and it might have to be a three way vaccine system in Australia and that if you initially got the Pfizer version for example the next step might be getting the Novavax next year.
I dont want to be given a vaccine that is 90% effective vs the standard CoVid strain but only 50-60% effective vs the others and then expected to have a cocktail of vaccines later for better coverage. Rather just have the one that gives me more total cover and less side effects.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #2134 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
I reckon there will be a push to wait for the Novavax vaccine in preference to the other two, its been trialled in the UK and South Africa and found to perform well vs the new strains which is what we are seeing in Australia now.
I watched a bit of Q and A and while the experts didnt agree on much the pro Pfizer/Moderna/ AstraZeneca group did agree that Novavax was promising and it might have to be a three way vaccine system in Australia and that if you initially got the Pfizer version for example the next step might be getting the Novavax next year.
I dont want to be given a vaccine that is 90% effective vs the standard CoVid strain but only 50-60% effective vs the others and then expected to have a cocktail of vaccines later for better coverage. Rather just have the one that gives me more total cover and less side effects.
As long as the numbers are reliable.

When it is stated they are conducting a trial all trials are not equal, nothing beats numbers and nothing beats the math. Some trials have as few as 2000 while other trials may have 50000 involved. I am not sure what number is enough, and it is almost certainly going to be the case different regions use different solutions.

I doubt any one vaccine will be a broad spectrum solution, although the single shot vaccines might be attractive from a logistical perspective if all other things are equal. Cost is now probably the least important aspect, because the cost of not vaccinating is catastrophic socially and economically.

Unfortunately we just have to accept there are big dollars involved, as well as huge liability, which as far as I know has not been waivered.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #2135 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
Not sure what you are trying to point out that hasn't already been pointed out.

Old rules out.
New rules in...and are in until 26th....which is later than what we've been told.

Just adding facts to the discussion.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #2136 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on
Sorry to hear that baggers.

When you combine our lockdown approach with the overarching threat of the virus itself, a more wise decision would be to get better data regarding the covid vaccine, and any potential ill effects.

No doubt they will clear the vaccine in time, and say its correlation not causation, but I have heard of people getting quite violently ill post vaccine.  That was from a health care worker in Ireland (via a colleague).  Her Sister works for the NHS over in Ireland.

Add frail and susceptible and it could be a dangerous combination.

I forgot to clarify that the grandmother concerned who died the day after her jab lives in England. There are, and will be, so many dreadful stories around all of this. The woman who works with Mrs Baggers hadn't seen her 'grandma' in years and was planning to see her next year when Covid is under control.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17
 

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #2137 –
Quote from: spf – on
Just adding facts to the discussion.

In case we didn't get it the first 2 times?
 :P

Quote from: kruddler – on
DHHS website states it will be until Feb 26.

Wonder how long it will be before its made official?

Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
State of Emergency Date has been extended to the 26th Feb.....

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #2139 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/feb/17/im-an-epidemiologist-ill-be-glad-to-get-whatever-vaccine-im-offered
Yes, I haven't come across someone genuinely on the front line who won't. I do have some contacts in the critical age care system, and the demise they have witnessed from COVID is no very pleasant, no matter how small you think the risk might be! No matter how frail, how ill, drowning in your own lung fluid is not a good end.

My GP has spent the last year doing double shifts at his practise and then working in emergency / critical care at one of the hospitals with a dedicated COVID ward. I can see the impact it's had on him, he has aged terribly, he'll be in the front line to get the vaccine and if it is good enough for him it's good enough for me!

 I'm not going to risk inflicting that demise on my friends and relatives, I don't want to be the one.

Young men volunteer for war, this vaccine is like signing up!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #2140 –
Quote from: LP – on
Yes, I haven't come across someone genuinely on the front line who won't. I do have some contacts in the critical age care system, and the demise they have witnessed from COVID is no very pleasant, no matter how small you think the risk might be! No matter how frail, how ill, drowning in your own lung fluid is not a good end.

My GP has spent the last year doing double shifts at his practise and then working in emergency / critical care at one of the hospitals with a dedicated COVID ward. I can see the impact it's had on him, he has aged terribly, he'll be in the front line to get the vaccine and if it is good enough for him it's good enough for me!

 I'm not going to risk inflicting that demise on my friends and relatives, I don't want to be the one.

Young men volunteer for war, this vaccine is like signing up!

Rather sad when all he had to do was pop a bit of Zinc, HCQ/Ivermectin and a decent, relevant antibiotic....

And check his Vitamin D levels. The simple stuff....

Meanwhile, back in the real world, the numbers mount (and these VAERS numbers are grossly understated numbers mind you).

Or we could question whether this virus has ever been isolated and met Koch's Postulates..... the answer being a big fat No.

Or we could ask are all these reported deaths globally really attributable to the virus and corresponding disease? the answer, again, being a big fat NO.
Finals, then 4 in a row!

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #2141 –

Holy Schmoly, for every 1 person who go the vaccine 1.29 people were affected, you're a dead person just being near them! :o :)

That little clarifying argument about the rubbery numbers is why you don't trust stats from that person, some unlucky people must have had two shots and died twice! ;D

The really nice one is birth defects, given pregnant woman are not yet cleared to get vaccinations either as part of trials or programs, and the vaccines have only been publicly available for 3 months even if they could! Micropregnancy?
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #2142 –
Quote from: flyboy77 – on
Rather sad when all he had to do was pop a bit of Zinc, HCQ/Ivermectin and a decent, relevant antibiotic....

And check his Vitamin D levels. The simple stuff....

Meanwhile, back in the real world, the numbers mount
Yes, because medical professionals want to spend $30K keeping you alive in an overflowing hospital, or let you die alone in a tent in a paddock somewhere, rather than offering the $30 over the counter cure! ;D
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #2143 –
Quote from: LP – on
Yes, I haven't come across someone genuinely on the front line who won't. I do have some contacts in the critical age care system, and the demise they have witnessed from COVID is no very pleasant, no matter how small you think the risk might be! No matter how frail, how ill, drowning in your own lung fluid is not a good end.

My GP has spent the last year doing double shifts at his practise and then working in emergency / critical care at one of the hospitals with a dedicated COVID ward. I can see the impact it's had on him, he has aged terribly, he'll be in the front line to get the vaccine and if it is good enough for him it's good enough for me!

 I'm not going to risk inflicting that demise on my friends and relatives, I don't want to be the one.

Young men volunteer for war, this vaccine is like signing up!
I think you will find quite a few frontline healthcare workers not so keen to get jabbed first up especially nurses and ambo's.
In fact overall the Government are concerned there maybe a 50% only or less take up overall in Australia and are spending a lot of money trying to market the vaccines to the public in particular.
Given the scatter gun approach of which vaccine you might get and how effective is one vs the other, as well as the rushed testing its going to be a hard sell IMHO until there is more data on what works best and is the safest.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #2144 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
I think you will find quite a few frontline healthcare workers not so keen to get jabbed first up especially nurses and ambo's.
In fairness, by front line I was referring to those working in COVID specific ICU wards, not just in the hospitals.

I admit that I only know a handful, we've have all heard from a few through media like the @PaulP story above.

I haven't found a verified front line COVID ICU carer who is a naysayer yet, they may exist but I haven't found a report from one that was genuine. Even that fainting nurse story turned out to be fake, common or garden variety syncope.

I have heard anecdotal stories of some refusing to work COVID ICU and also refusing COVID vaccine, that seems somewhat contradictory in logic!

I'll trust my GP, I know where he has been!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"