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Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #3885 –
Quote from: flyboy77 – on
Meanwhile, 60% of hospitalised patients in the UK with COVID have been double vaxxed.

How that equates to 90%++ efficacy in stopping hospitalisation is anyone's guess.

Reeks of blatant lies.





Fake news Flyboy!

The corrected statement is 6 out of 10 people hospitalised with COVID aren’t vaccinated.  There’s no breakdown of the 4 out of 10 and it’s possible that 1 or even 2 out of 10 may be fully vaccinated, particularly if they are older folk.
It's still the Gulf of Mexico, Don Old!

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #3886 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on
If you two stopped arguing for an outcome and exercised a modicum of understanding you'd quickly discover the following thought process and point being made.

In a situation where nsw has 85 odd in icu off less than 5000 cases, in a future state where we are all vaccinated irrespective of Vaccination we are going to see rising hospitalisation off rising positive cases.

Even if this is a better outcome to the alternative (no this isn't an argument against Vaccination) the worst is still ahead of us and its a lot worse than our current state of being.

THAT is the fact.  Or are you guys too busy pushing an outcome that the reality of our situation hasn't dawned on you?

It seems that the underlying point of this post has been missed because this has disintegrated to a pro vax anti vax argument rather than a discussion about the over arching pandemic.

Are you people ignoring this on purpose?
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #3887 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on
It seems that the underlying point of this post has been missed because this has disintegrated to a pro vax anti vax argument rather than a discussion about the over arching pandemic.

Are you people ignoring this on purpose?


There is broad agreement among epidemiologists and infectious disease experts (including Prof Cheng on the wireless this morning) that mass vaccination is the only way to mitigate the impacts of COVID.  Your opinion is important but really doesn’t carry much weight in the context of expert scientific analysis.

Yes, people will still be infected with COVID, and some unfortunates will be hospitalised and some of them will die, but its impact will be greatly reduced and life will be closer to pre-COVID normal.

Analysis of ancient DNA has revealed that there was a COVID pandemic 25,000 years ago.  It lasted for 20,000 years!
It's still the Gulf of Mexico, Don Old!
 

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #3888 –
Looking forward, I'm no expert but those English figures regarding hospital admissions don't suggest you can open up borders to everyone safely even with the majority fully vaccinated. With the virus mutating and spreading you are still going to have 30-40 % of folk at risk of being in hospital especially in the older range.
As Thry suggested it's not the panacea that governments are making it out to be and life won't be going back to normal anytime soon.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #3889 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Looking forward, I'm no expert but those English figures regarding hospital admissions don't suggest you can open up borders to everyone safely even with the majority fully vaccinated. With the virus mutating and spreading you are still going to have 30-40 % of folk at risk of being in hospital especially in the older range.
As Thry suggested it's not the panacea that governments are making it out to be and life won't be going back to normal anytime soon.

The Delta strain seems every bit as concerning for the young.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #3890 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
As Thry suggested it's not the panacea that governments are making it out to be and life won't be going back to normal anytime soon.
Who in the official sphere told you it would return to as-was normal?

The officials talk about getting through it, they talk about resuming some semblance of normality, but they don't talk about things going back to the way it was. They do however mention the only chance of that happening is through vaccination, is that deliberately ambiguous or just a foible of language and comprehension.

The only people I can find making such a claim, that things can go back to as-was, are those promoting a throw in the towel position to let it run free. I presume they will be the same people screaming for doctors and scientists to help them as they or a family member is wheeled into the ICU, or suing hospitals because they didn't save a family member, or begging governments for disability compensation and assistance.

Bizarrely I gather none of us involved in this debate will be shocked if and when that happens to be a Karen, lifetime COVID Pension anyone?

If Thry wants to worry about hospitals filling up, it seems strange to want to exclude a discussion about vaccine hesitancy and the fake news circulated that promotes that vaccine hesitancy. To me that is the key issue, not just some ancillary issue. I gather from the other responses it's not just me that thinks that, but apparently those like minded individuals must also be mindless drones being herded like sheep by the "experts" who have concealed the true reality from us, a reality only discovered by the enlightened users of Instagram and FaceBook! ::)
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #3891 –
This isn't about vaccine hesitancy, or what vaccine is better etc. This is the end game, numbers in hospitals from countries who are well advanced in their programs and close to the levels where experts say we need to be to stop lockdowns. My question is could you safely open up our borders based on those results in England?

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #3892 –
Boris made the wrong call .... again.  47,000 new cases yesterday and 100 deaths?  Bumbling  idiot.  Instead of concentrating on ridiculous zero emissions you tool, control the current crisis.   




Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #3893 –
Quote from: LP – on
Who in the official sphere told you it would return to as-was normal?

The officials talk about getting through it, they talk about resuming some semblance of normality, but they don't talk about things going back to the way it was. They do however mention the only chance of that happening is through vaccination, is that deliberately ambiguous or just a foible of language and comprehension.

The only people I can find making such a claim, that things can go back to as-was, are those promoting a throw in the towel position to let it run free. I presume they will be the same people screaming for doctors and scientists to help them as they or a family member is wheeled into the ICU, or suing hospitals because they didn't save a family member, or begging governments for disability compensation and assistance.

Bizarrely I gather none of us involved in this debate will be shocked if and when that happens to be a Karen, lifetime COVID Pension anyone?

If Thry wants to worry about hospitals filling up, it seems strange to want to exclude a discussion about vaccine hesitancy and the fake news circulated that promotes that vaccine hesitancy. To me that is the key issue, not just some ancillary issue. I gather from the other responses it's not just me that thinks that, but apparently those like minded individuals must also be mindless drones being herded like sheep by the "experts" who have concealed the true reality from us, a reality only discovered by the enlightened users of Instagram and FaceBook! ::)

You really only see things one way dont you?

The hospitals are as important (if not more important) to focus on for some of us.

Why?  Well, some of us actually work in them for one thing, and for another, once COVID hits the hospitals ability to actually serve and protect ALL patients (irrespective of what is wrong with them) is going to come under some serious pressure in a way we have yet to really experience through this pandemic.

My underlying point, is with or without a successful vaccination program, the worst of this is ahead of us, and this means that people have time to prepare themselves for that eventually when it occurs, because right now, I see a lot of head in sand reactions from people, including those that thumb their nose at the pandemic and are travelling about because they are vacccinated. 

Lets not forget, there is still the capability for this thing to evolve again, and for our vaccination to be as useful as drying your hair in the shower. 
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #3894 –
Quote from: capcom – on
Boris made the wrong call .... again.  47,000 new cases yesterday and 100 deaths?  Bumbling  idiot.  Instead of concentrating on ridiculous zero emissions you tool, control the current crisis.   





My cousins in England first thoughts after the lockdown was lifted was to head straight to the pub and make up for lost drinking time.
Its like the Pandemic never existed, Boris is a nuffy but he doesn't have much to work with in terms of brain cell numbers with the population.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #3895 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on
Lets not forget, there is still the capability for this thing to evolve again, and for our vaccination to be as useful as drying your hair in the shower.
I agree entirely, and the chance of that happening greatly increases when less people are vaccinated.

This pandemic is not just about Delta, the current growing global outbreak will almost certainly be an aggregation of the original strain, the Alpha strain and the Delta strain, and the next deadly strain if one appears. None have died off, disappeared or evaporated as The Donald proselytised to the nutter hoards.

There are two very dangerous concepts in this debate, one is alluded to by Elwood discussing the behaviour of his UK relatives on Freedom Day, the other is that extinction is both a plan and a possibility. Both concepts promote complacency on a massive social scale, we will bid our time and then be set free!

The thought that the vaccinations aren't perfect should not be indirectly or incidentally inferring the idea of doing nothing while waiting for something better to come along, not acting is very dangerous and not incidental. Doing nothing is not the safe option.

As much resource should be piled into hospitals as is being piled on vaccine production, but unfortunately the historical evidence suggests that won't happen. The talisman of this current pandemic have been warning authorities since the 1990s, and have been ignored. The lockdowns, the restrictions, the vaccinations are a consequence of ignoring those warnings. Historically it is the political equivalent of waiting for your car to breakdown before you do a service.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #3896 –
110 new locally acquired cases to 10pm last night in NSW. Gladys is doing a great job at maintaining the rate of around 700 new locally acquired cases per week. An applaudable consistency.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #3897 –
What you say is right, Thryleon, but this just illustrates the dilemma when it comes to persuading the public to vaccinate.

If we treat vaccinated and unvaccinated people as the same, many people will think there’s no benefit to being vaccinated. Of course, the benefit is avoiding infection or reducing its severity but some people think they’re bulletproof anyway. If they can see that they’ll be able to travel more freely, for instance, then they’ll do it even if they don’t think they’re at risk. That’s a better carrot than lotteries or free beer. Well, maybe not better than free beer ...

Then we have the issue of the efficacy of the vaccine. Yes, there’s a risk of the vaccinated being overconfident, but there’s much more risk of the unvaccinated losing interest in the vaccine if its benefits aren’t clear. Anti-vaxxers would love to undermine confidence in vaccines by saying some vaccinated people die of Covid and implying there’s no benefit in being vaccinated. It would be a disaster if public health authorities in the face of such an anti-vaxxer campaign agreed that vaccination might not protect people.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #3898 –
Are there any anti vaxxers here?
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #3899 –
22 new cases in Melbourne.
The Foo Fighters have just performed a concert and insisted on entry to Vaccinated fans only...Dave Grohl copping some flak from a few other muso's for discriminating against the non vaccinated. I guess thats his right though if he considers he is protecting his band, crew and fan base.