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Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5370 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on
^^  follow moderna's share price and that will give you a better answer.
A lot of the share price stuff is driven by very short term players, the long game is very different, it's hard to detangle.

I think AZ was quite clever, by sub-licensing manufacturing to many governments they basically had a bunch of AZ compatible facilities built around the globe at someone else's expense, but the product those facilities make is licensed. Now if AZ invent some new drug or treatment for whatever disease or treatment, those locations are already invested in AZ technology will be unlikely to look at alternatives, they'll just license the next AZ product by default. They already have the kit, they already have the skilled staff, they already have most of the know how, they just need the license and they are up and away!

I think it is smarter than the Moderna / Pfizer closed shop approach, to scale up manufacture those two have to build new facilities at their own risk. So what do they do when something like GSK or Merck put that investment at risk, how do they fight back?

By contrast AZ doesn't have to, they didn't foot the bill, the only risk is a short term royalty for a massive long term benefit!

The detractors are really only looking at the short term, and not the long game. The Pfizer/Moderna approach looks more profitable in the short term as long as the existing established product is not undercut. So they have to undermine all the alternatives and keep investing in their own capacity.

Might be a short selling opportunity in there somewhere?
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5371 –
Love it! An anti-vaxxer was walking down Hollywood Boulevard using a bullhorn to spread her nonsense about Covid being a hoax. But she learned a valuable lesson: don't ask a question to which you don't know the answer, even if (or especially when) the question is a rhetorical one:

Quote
ANTI-VAXX PROTESTER: Do you see all of these homeless people around. Are they dead in the street with COVID? Hell no. Why?

HOMELESS PERSON (walking by): Because I’m vaccinated you dumb fu#k.

Man Demolishes Vaccine Opponent's Argument About Homeless People In Just 6 Words, Huffpost.
 

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5372 –
Quote from: LP – on
A lot of the share price stuff is driven by very short term players, the long game is very different, it's hard to detangle.

I think AZ was quite clever, by sub-licensing manufacturing to many governments they basically had a bunch of AZ compatible facilities built around the globe at someone else's expense, but the product those facilities make is licensed. Now if AZ invent some new drug or treatment for whatever disease or treatment, those locations are already invested in AZ technology will be unlikely to look at alternatives, they'll just license the next AZ product by default. They already have the kit, they already have the skilled staff, they already have most of the know how, they just need the license and they are up and away!

I think it is smarter than the Moderna / Pfizer closed shop approach, to scale up manufacture those two have to build new facilities at their own risk. So what do they do when something like GSK or Merck put that investment at risk, how do they fight back?

By contrast AZ doesn't have to, they didn't foot the bill, the only risk is a short term royalty for a massive long term benefit!

The detractors are really only looking at the short term, and not the long game. The Pfizer/Moderna approach looks more profitable in the short term as long as the existing established product is not undercut. So they have to undermine all the alternatives and keep investing in their own capacity.

Might be a short selling opportunity in there somewhere?
You didn't check did you?

Dont obsfucate the most likely answer to your own question.

Pfizer in 2017 was trading at $31.79 us.  In 2021 it hit a high of $51.86 after a low of only $27.00 when covid hit.

Moderna however after being at a low of $18.60 5 years ago, is now trading at a whopping $302.42 USD per share and is down from a 52 week high of $497.49.

;)

THAT's why no one cares to report on Modernas side effects.

Dont believe the noise you hear on social media.  Its sponsored propaganda, and its a powerful vehicle because it caters to an audience who are capable of liking and sharing the content.  Jump on, and you will see a variety of content that all takes advantage of the algorithm.  The more you read about a topic, the more you see about that same topic.

The majority of users are too involved in it to look through the crap.



"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5373 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on
Dont believe the noise you hear on social media. 
I'm not obfuscating anything, I hypothesised about this several times over the last year and have remained consistent.

I'm not on social media much, I really only go there when I need to get hold of someone via Messenger. Much of what I see and comment on comes from friends or family members trying to show me stuff.

The short sell comment was specifically aimed at Moderna.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5374 –
Quote from: Mav – on
Love it! An anti-vaxxer was walking down Hollywood Boulevard using a bullhorn to spread her nonsense about Covid being a hoax. But she learned a valuable lesson: don't ask a question to which you don't know the answer, even if (or especially when) the question is a rhetorical one:

Man Demolishes Vaccine Opponent's Argument About Homeless People In Just 6 Words, Huffpost.

So, if vaccines (these current cv19 ones) are so effective, why the hate and heat on the unvaxxed to get jabbed?

You're safe as houses right?

(or perhaps you've seen the data out of Israel, the UK etc and you too appreciate they're a waste of bloody space against delta and likely future variants and will require ongoing multi annual jabs just to keep the drug company coffers topped up?)

Buyer's remorse.

QED.

ps who's hanging out for the Pfizermectin pill?

Let me know what your missus says.
Finals, then 4 in a row!

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5375 –
I wonder if an average student was offered tuition that would guarantee 90% in an exam, would s/he say, “No thanks, that isn’t 100% so it’s no good”.

In a binary world, I guess that would be the way. If you don’t get 100%, you must have got 0%. There’s nothing in between.

I can see now why you think Ivermectin can compete with vaccines. Ivermectin's 0% success rate is the same as the 90% effectiveness of the vaccines as neither is 100%. It makes sense, I guess.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5376 –
Quote from: Mav – on
I wonder if an average student was offered tuition that would guarantee 90% in an exam, would s/he say, “No thanks, that isn’t 100% so it’s no good”.

In a binary world, I guess that would be the way. If you don’t get 100%, you must have got 0%. There’s nothing in between.

I can see now why you think Ivermectin can compete with vaccines. Ivermectin's 0% success rate is the same as the 90% effectiveness of the vaccines as neither is 100%. It makes sense, I guess.

Your analogy is a little skewed.

Rather then comparing  a pear to pineapple you need to confirm first if the tuition which ensures a 90% mark comes completely risk free. Or is there like the vaccine some chance of unknown and possible health risks/side effects that won’t be known for 5 plus years if you take that tuition?

That changes the question somewhat don’t you think but thats a fairer analogy.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5377 –
Quote from: shawny – on
possible health risks/side effects that won’t be known for 5 plus years if you take that
Where did you get that 5 years?
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5378 –
I guess if we were in the Middle Ages, we'd be fearful of the "chance of unknown and possible health risks/side effects that won’t be known for 5 plus years". We'd also be scared to death when eclipses happened and the Church would put anyone to death who had the temerity to suggest we evolved from animals. Thank God we don't live in those times, hey ...

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5379 –
Quote from: flyboy77 – on
So, if vaccines (these current cv19 ones) are so effective, why the hate and heat on the unvaxxed to get jabbed?
Because people who genuinely can't be vaccinated aren't just collateral damage for your desire for profit and freedom!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5380 –
Quote from: flyboy77 – on
So, if vaccines (these current cv19 ones) are so effective, why the hate and heat on the unvaxxed to get jabbed?

You're safe as houses right?

This is the argument of the selfish and ignorant.

Think about those who can't get jabbed

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5381 –
Quote from: LP – on
Where did you get that 5 years?

Plucked a figure in saying 5 - I’m sure you know I was implying the long term side effects are unknown.

I hope you can tell me I’m wrong in all honesty like most  I would be very relieved to know it has no long term health effects for all age groups but doubtful you can provide that evidence.

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5382 –
Quote from: shawny – on
Your analogy is a little skewed.

Rather then comparing  a pear to pineapple you need to confirm first if the tuition which ensures a 90% mark comes completely risk free. Or is there like the vaccine some chance of unknown and possible health risks/side effects that won’t be known for 5 plus years if you take that tuition?

That changes the question somewhat don’t you think but thats a fairer analogy.

That's the issue right there!  Why on earth would health risks or side effects become apparent after five years?

All of the COVID vaccines, well apart from the Chinese and Russian varieties, have undergone more testing than any previously developed vaccine.

I've had vaccinations/inocculations for polio, measles, mumps, rubella, whooping cough, tetanus, diptheria, tuberculosis, seasonal flu and probably several others.  None of them have gone through the same testing regime as the COVID vaccinations yet I'm still alive and kicking 60-70 years later.  That probably wouldn't be the case if I hadn't had those vaccinations.  It's called progress.
It's still the Gulf of Mexico, Don Old!

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5383 –
Quote from: shawny – on
Plucked a figure in saying 5 - I’m sure you know I was implying the long term side effects are unknown.

I hope you can tell me I’m wrong in all honesty like most  I would be very relieved to know it has no long term health effects for all age groups but doubtful you can provide that evidence.

Ok lets play this what if game.

What are the long term effects of getting covid naturally?

Considering we don't have long term effects of this vaccine, let me propose an alternative.

Can you show me evidence of long term side effects from any other vaccine?

Why should this one be different?
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: CV and mad panic behaviour

Reply #5384 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on

Can you show me evidence of long term side effects from any other vaccine?
Other than the fact most of us won't ever get polio, the tracking chips still enable FB to send me Ads for things I was talking about! ;D

On a more serious note, I see this long term bad side-effects meme as a cross between Long COVID and Vaccination.

It's built on a social media misunderstanding or misrepresentation that Long COVID effects 'appear' after some extended period, as opposed to having the virus do some immediate damage now that degrades health further over time potentially lasting a lifetime!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"