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Topic: Next Flag: Carlton or St Kilda? (Read 21107 times) previous topic - next topic
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Next Flag: Carlton or St Kilda?

The Fox Footy Verdict:

JONATHAN BROWN:
I would have to say Carlton. I think St Kilda will go better this year from a ladder point of view but I think the top-end of Carlton looks a lot brighter for the future. When you’re looking at winning premierships you are looking at the top-end talent that you’ve got on your list and I have to say Carlton wins that battle. I think they’ve done a pretty good job with their rebuild. They’ve gone down the path of recruiting key position players and key position players take time to develop but it’s important because if you can build that spine it gives you good longevity. If they can get Harry McKay and Charlie Curnow going, I think their key defenders are pretty strong. It’s just can they support Patrick Cripps with enough support in the midfield? But their bones to me allows them to go higher than St Kilda. I think Carlton will start to hit their sweet-spot from 2022 onwards.

MATTHEW PAVLICH:
I think Carlton’s younger players and the talent they’ve got through the draft the last few years is superior to St Kilda. So I think longer-term Carlton is better off. But given what the Saints’ strategy has been the last couple of years getting in the likes of Dan Hannebery, Brad Hill, Zak Jones, Dougal Howard and Paddy Ryder, I think their list is a bit more robust to have a go at challenging now. So I think they’re closer than Carlton right now. If you look at the Richmond model a couple of years ago where they brought in the likes of Dion Prestia, Toby Nankervis and Josh Caddy, people at the time were questioning whether it was the right move to go the experienced players. Only the Saints’ hierarchy know if they’ve done the right thing getting these players in. On the surface it’s a bold move going to all these older experienced players and trying to make it work, but I can understand what they’re trying to do.

GERARD HEALY:
The Blues. They’re taking the slow path and the constant build and they’ve still got a really good trade hand coming up in the next couple of years. They’ve got some serious magnets in place. They need to keep working big time on their midfield, including ruck stocks. But I think they will be rewarded in time for their patience. It’s fair to say it will be exciting to see what the Saints’ approach does and you’d expect them to have a significant lift over the next year or two. But the concern is they’ve got one pick in the top-50 in the next two years. So the only way they’re going to now bolster their chances is through free agency. If they can pull a trick or two there then they may jump up and give themselves a chance. But the one thing they would want to avoid is getting stuck in that middle clump of teams, one or two legs away from being a genuine contender. They’ve recruited for now but they’re going to have to pull a couple of masterstrokes to find another level once this level has played out.

Re: Next Flag: Carlton or St Kilda?

Reply #1 –
We have gone cap in hand to the AFL asking for a handout again.

Whilst that equation remains, we are not going to win a thing.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson
 

Re: Next Flag: Carlton or St Kilda?

Reply #3 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
Yep :
https://www.sen.com.au/news/2020/04/13/blues-will-ask-the-afl-for-financial-assistance/
Liddle and Judge explained that had we not paid of so much debt, we would have been self sufficient like the others. Liddle said  if the crisis was this this time next year, they would have been non assisted. I think its important to mention this.
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership
2026-Slow start, we can kick after all, why not?

Re: Next Flag: Carlton or St Kilda?

Reply #4 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on
We have gone cap in hand to the AFL asking for a handout again.

Whilst that equation remains, we are not going to win a thing.

Interesting to see which teams didn't.  Geelong, above all, should be denied any assistance.

They disgust me.  I'm sure I'm not the only one

Re: Next Flag: Carlton or St Kilda?

Reply #5 –
Quote from: capcom – on
Interesting to see which teams didn't.  Geelong, above all, should be denied any assistance.

They disgust me.  I'm sure I'm not the only one



Caros article on this a week or 2 ago said that only 3 teams would be able to go it alone. I can't recall if it was Vic based clubs only.

Tigers, Pies and i think it was either Hawthorn or Geelong for the 3rd were the only 3 teams deemed viable due to the money in the bank that they hold.

It was suggested that the Kangas could be insolvent in about 2 weeks. The Sainters not too far behind.

Basically the AFL said it like this.
If you need assistance now, or you think you may need it in the not too distant future, you need to apply now.
If you apply later, then you will have to pay a higher price for any bailout you ask for.

So its simply smart business to ask now given the unknowns. You'll be better off in the long run.
Its better asking and not needing than not asking and needing.

Re: Next Flag: Carlton or St Kilda?

Reply #6 –
All true kruddler and perhaps jumping the gun, but them with all their handouts and grants and (alleged) money in the bank?  At least grade the grants but we know nothing about intended splits, so rather academic.     

Re: Next Flag: Carlton or St Kilda?

Reply #7 –
Quote from: capcom – on
All true kruddler and perhaps jumping the gun, but them with all their handouts and grants and (alleged) money in the bank?  At least grade the grants but we know nothing about intended splits, so rather academic.     
There was some talk about what it all meant......but largely its just guesswork until....
a) The season gets started/shortened/cancelled
b) The clubs work out how much money they have/need

A simplistic version from what i can recall is each club gets a big bag of cash.....they use what they need (if anything) and pay it all back when they can. Minimal interest for all clubs who put their hands up now. Larger amount for clubs who ask later.

Liddle seemed to think that even with asking for a handout, we should be able to pay off our remaining debt in the next 18months or so.

I think largely, its just s handout to help with cashflow in the short term.

Re: Next Flag: Carlton or St Kilda?

Reply #8 –
The interest rates won't discourage the applications

Re: Next Flag: Carlton or St Kilda?

Reply #9 –
Quote from: capcom – on
The interest rates won't discourage the applications

The larger interest rate for delaying asking for help won't discourage clubs from asking later....sure. If it gets to that stage and they need to ask its probably because its either get help or perish.
However, if you think there is any chance you will need to ask.....down the line.....just ask now. You'll save yourself money in interest by swallowing your pride.

The AFL are doing that so they can get a better indication on how to budget for the future.
If they set aside x amount of $'s now.....and then teams come out of the woodwork and need more help later, their budget goes up ship creek. So encourage them now, and you have a more stable budget to get you through this crisis.

Re: Next Flag: Carlton or St Kilda?

Reply #10 –
Quote from: kruddler – on

Caros article on this a week or 2 ago said that only 3 teams would be able to go it alone. I can't recall if it was Vic based clubs only.

Tigers, Pies and i think it was either Hawthorn or Geelong for the 3rd were the only 3 teams deemed viable due to the money in the bank that they hold.

It was suggested that the Kangas could be insolvent in about 2 weeks. The Sainters not too far behind.

Basically the AFL said it like this.
If you need assistance now, or you think you may need it in the not too distant future, you need to apply now.
If you apply later, then you will have to pay a higher price for any bailout you ask for.

So its simply smart business to ask now given the unknowns. You'll be better off in the long run.
Its better asking and not needing than not asking and needing.
Unassisted clubs are West Coast, Richmond, Collingwood, Hawthorn Adelaide, Western Bulldogs and Cheats FC.

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/western-bulldogs-among-the-six-clubs-to-go-it-alone-20200406-p54hnt.html

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/stalwart-elshaug-laid-off-by-bombers-in-coronavirus-crunch-20200414-p54jn3.html
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership
2026-Slow start, we can kick after all, why not?

Re: Next Flag: Carlton or St Kilda?

Reply #11 –
Back on topic, the comparison to St Kilda seems rather arbitrary.

At any rate, it's good news that we are now being mentioned in the same breath as them. If you've ever craved a single sentence that summarises our precipitous decline, look no further.

Re: Next Flag: Carlton or St Kilda?

Reply #12 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
Back on topic, the comparison to St Kilda seems rather arbitrary.

At any rate, it's good news that we are now being mentioned in the same breath as them. If you've ever craved a single sentence that summarises our precipitous decline, look no further.
Long term remains to be seen, I'm not convinced. This year (if it gets going again) and/or next year, they will go passed us based on what I have seen or not seen in our our case.
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership
2026-Slow start, we can kick after all, why not?

Re: Next Flag: Carlton or St Kilda?

Reply #13 –
REM ... it's the end of the (AFL) world as we know it :)

Re: Next Flag: Carlton or St Kilda?

Reply #14 –
Our future depends on our midfield. If we can produce a top ruckman, we can go all the way.
Live Long and Prosper!