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Topic: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2020 Rd 2: Carlton vs Melbourne (Read 35090 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2020 Rd 2: Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #240 –
Is he any better or worse than Phillips?
DrE is no more... you ok with that harmonica man?

Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2020 Rd 2: Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #241 –
Quote from: Professer E – on
Is he any better or worse than Phillips?
I suspect not.

Is he another Phillips, I think that's the bigger question, Pittonet appears to be more durable than Phillips? So that makes me wonder what has held him back if not injuries!

I want them all the succeed when they come to our club, but I'm ultra-cognisant of the toll our apparent lack of progress in this area is taking on Cripps. I think I'm justified in being impatient to find a genuine 1st ruck option, not more support acts. A big midfield presence that can deliver a guy like Cripps some hope!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2020 Rd 2: Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #242 –
On a separate issue to the ruck debate;

Has Cripps desire to become leaner / faster taken a toll on his well-being and diminished some of his key strengths.

Does he look rundown to other fans?
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2020 Rd 2: Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #243 –
Quote from: LP – on
I suspect not.

Is he another Phillips, I think that's the bigger question, Pittonet appears to be more durable than Phillips? So that makes me wonder what has held him back if not injuries!

I want them all the succeed when they come to our club, but I'm ultra-cognisant of the toll our apparent lack of progress in this area is taking on Cripps. I think I'm justified in being impatient to find a genuine 1st ruck option, not more support acts. A big midfield presence that can deliver a guy like Cripps some hope!

Even back in 2017, Pittonet was the 2nd best ruck (behind Meese) in the VFL.

Just watched the replay of the last 3 quarters - we have no one but ourselves to blame for the loss - shocking misses by the Guv and Cripps in Q3 (likwise in Q4 by Betts, Martin and Cripps - all easy set shots).

Pittonet was the better overall ruckman in Q2 through Q4 - might not have won the centre square taps but negated Gawn there and won around the ground comfortably.

Walsh had two kicks I50 with a minute to go - butchered both of them.

The Dees were insipid after half time. Worse than us in Q1.

As others have said, we've forgotten how to win. And the umps didn't help.

A very bad loss.

Non contributors from us - Simmo, Big H (gave away a few critical frees), Newnes.

Everyone else has huge room to improve - Martin, SPS, Cripps, Levi, Eddie, Doc, Walsh.

Setters? Needs to get involved more (ditto SPS and the Guv especially)

Murphy? Fine as an outside receiver, not much good on the inside anymore.
Finals, then 4 in a row!

Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2020 Rd 2: Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #244 –
Blokes on our list like Murphy, Fisher, Cunningham, O'Brien, SPS, Dow, Walsh, Owies, Polson, Ed Curnow, Gibbons, etc, etc, are easy targets for criticism when things go bad. But they are not heavy bodied inside mids, never were and never will be.

There output depends on the presence of a guy like Kreuzer, for everything he does beside the contesting the tap, winning the tap is almost ancillary. When Kreuzer is in they play better, regardless of SpecialK's form line. Because when SpecialK's feet hit the ground his natural instinct is to hunt the footy and opponents without hesitation. It makes the little blokes stand taller, it makes life a little easier for other potential big bodied mids like Cripps, Setterfield, SoJ, Plowman, Charlie Curnow, etc., etc..

Being good in the ruck and a team winning clearances was never, is never and will never be about just squaring the contest or winning the tap against your opponent.

I'll never accept a ruckmen in the mould of a Warnock or Phillips, because just winning the taps contributes so little to the team. It's one of the reasons why I liked Jones rucking so much in the VFL, and cannot understand how he never had a crack as a 2nd ruck in the AFL. He is not a great tap ruckmen, and won't better many opponents at the bounce or at a stoppage, but when the ball hit the ground he was after it like a rat up a drain pipe!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2020 Rd 2: Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #246 –
Quote from: LP – on
Blokes on our list like Murphy, Fisher, Cunningham, O'Brien, SPS, Dow, Walsh, Owies, Polson, Ed Curnow, Gibbons, etc, etc, are easy targets for criticism when things go bad. But they are not heavy bodied inside mids, never were and never will be.

There output depends on the presence of a guy like Kreuzer, for everything he does beside the contesting the tap, winning the tap is almost ancillary. When Kreuzer is in they play better, regardless of SpecialK's form line. Because when SpecialK's feet hit the ground his natural instinct is to hunt the footy and opponents without hesitation. It makes the little blokes stand taller, it makes life a little easier for other potential big bodied mids like Cripps, Setterfield, SoJ, Plowman, Charlie Curnow, etc., etc..

Being good in the ruck and a team winning clearances was never, is never and will never be about just squaring the contest or winning the tap against your opponent.

I'll never accept a ruckmen in the mould of a Warnock or Phillips, because just winning the taps contributes so little to the team. It's one of the reasons why I liked Jones rucking so much in the VFL, and cannot understand how he never had a crack as a 2nd ruck in the AFL. He is not a great tap ruckmen, and won't better many opponents at the bounce or at a stoppage, but when the ball hit the ground he was after it like a rat up a drain pipe!

Doesn't matter how big or small you are if you can win the ball and use it well.

Lachie Neale - 177cm, 84kg.
Finals, then 4 in a row!

Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2020 Rd 2: Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #247 –
SPS just doesnt man opponents or chase hard enough, that initial effort on Petracca was pathetic where he was half hearted and clearly couldnt be bothered chasing. It was the start of the game and he was fresh, no excuse, if Teague allows that kind of effort to be rewarded with games then we wont get anywhere. I would drop him this week and give Stocker a run, the latter might not have all the bells and whistles that SPS has but already I know he will give you effort on the basics like tackling every game.

How non descripts like Hunt and Neal Bullen got 5 goals between them also remains a mystery, crap manning up of small/mid sized forwards is a hallmark of our defense, I dont care how many possies our defenders get a match they need to pay more attention to their man. Myers will probably kick a bundle this week because no one will pick him up....

Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2020 Rd 2: Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #248 –
Quote from: flyboy77 – on
Doesn't matter how big or small you are if you can win the ball and use it well.

Lachie Neale - 177cm, 84kg.
We got to the football 1st plenty of times at the weekend, even in the 1st quarter.

Use of the football is also influenced by the quality of the ruck and the ruck's involvement in shepherding midfielders from opponents. It's why GWS were so desperate to get Mumford back on the park, he protects guys like Whitfield and Coniglio from the pissweak "hang back and then tackle them types" that inflicted so much pain on us last weekend. People in the media pumped up Oliver and Petracca, but seriously as midfield bulls probably more than 50% of their possessions came from letting a Carlton player try to pick the ball up first. Fair enough, they know they are big enough to inflict pain on smaller mids, and that we lack the pace or strength to do anything in response, they were well coached in this regard.

I've stated before, the current rules reward the pissweak who leave winning the first touch to somebody else.

Who the feck are our midfield and stoppages coaches, how could we have such a wrongly phrased plan?
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2020 Rd 2: Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #249 –
Quote from: LP – on
We got to the football 1st plenty of times at the weekend, even in the 1st quarter.

Use of the football is also influenced by the quality of the ruck and the ruck's involvement in shepherding midfielders from opponents. It's why GWS were so desperate to get Mumford back on the park, he protects guys like Whitfield and Coniglio from the pissweak "hang back and then tackle them types" that inflicted so much pain on us last weekend. People in the media pumped up Oliver and Petracca, but seriously as midfield bulls probably more than 50% of their possessions came from letting a Carlton player try to pick the ball up first. Fair enough, they know they are big enough to inflict pain on smaller mids, and that we lack the pace or strength to do anything in response, they were well coached in this regard.

I've stated before, the current rules reward the pissweak who leave winning the first touch to somebody else.

Who the feck are our midfield and stoppages coaches, how could we have such a wrongly phrased plan?

Is that Barkers role?...and why was Oliver allowed to hold Cripps way off the contest all the time without another team-mate blocking for him or delivering some physicality to Oliver.
Now we have Brett Deledio and Kane Cornes all suggesting Cripps should look elsewhere and given the lack of help he is getting he might start thinking about it..
I watched ex Blue Nick Holman take out Luke Shuey with a lovely bump that left Shuey counting his ribs...when was the last time we saw a Carlton player do that to a opposition player....maybe Robbo?, thats what Oliver needed.

Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2020 Rd 2: Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #250 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Is that Barkers role?...and why was Oliver allowed to hold Cripps way off the contest all the time without another team-mate blocking for him or delivering some physicality to Oliver.
Now we have Brett Deledio and Kane Cornes all suggesting Cripps should look elsewhere and given the lack of help he is getting he might start thinking about it..
I watched ex Blue Nick Holman take out Luke Shuey with a lovely bump that left Shuey counting his ribs...when was the last time we saw a Carlton player do that to a opposition player....maybe Robbo?, thats what Oliver needed.
I feel your pain EB1.

Funny I was think the exact same thing watching the replay, not just Oliver, but the Dees put player after player between Cripps and the football nearly all of it illegal shepherding. I miss Mitch Robinson!

Why does someone like Cripps get stuff all umpire protection, while blokes like Dangerfield or Bont get a free ride? Who at our club has governance over this, and how and when are those issues being raised with the AFL?
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2020 Rd 2: Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #251 –
Quote from: LP – on
On a separate issue to the ruck debate;

Has Cripps desire to become leaner / faster taken a toll on his well-being and diminished some of his key strengths.

Does he look rundown to other fans?

He looked flat on the weekend but....
Is it a more general issue than just Cripps.
Have we sacrificed size and strength for a leaner, fitter side that gets smashed at the contest early on but can run out games better than most.

Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2020 Rd 2: Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #252 –
Quote from: flyboy77 – on
Doesn't matter how big or small you are if you can win the ball and use it well.

Lachie Neale - 177cm, 84kg.
Agree and I'm getting tired of this big bodied mid term thats now become an excuse when you lose. Reality is there are only a handful of big bodied mids in the comp worth a pinch of salt, main suspects being Crippa, Fyfe, Pendles and Bontempelli. When you look at the Tiggers, its the lesser likes (not necessarily big blokes) that have lifted, and more than just played a role, that is the key to their success. Blokes like Lambert, Vlaustin, Townsend (gone), Butler (gone), Bolton, Pickett, Baker, Higgins. No necessarily high draft picks but they more than contribute and are rarely labelled as passenger. We are the opposite, one bus driver (Cripps) and bus load of blokes along for the ride. Need to change this or the loses (honorable or otherwise) will continue.
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership

Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2020 Rd 2: Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #253 –
Quote from: LP – on
I feel your pain EB1.

Funny I was think the exact same thing watching the replay, not just Oliver, but the Dees put player after player between Cripps and the football nearly all of it illegal shepherding. I miss Mitch Robinson!


Likewise. As just one example, when a leader/senior player like Murphy squibs it, it sends a poor message to the rest of the group. His play improved in the remainder of the D's game but by then the damage was done. We need blokes at the bounce with an uncompromising hard edge; a mongrel desire to get the aggott and keep the aggott.

That 1st qtr will go down in history as the worst first qtr ever from a group of blokes wearing the great CFC on their chests.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17
 

Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2020 Rd 2: Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #254 –
I don't have problems with blokes like Murphy, Walsh or Fisher not smashing themselves against the rocks, that is not what they are there for.

Fans can be ignorant of the risk, they want little guys like that pulverising themselves in the first contest of the day just to make a statement, so the team risks losing them for the rest of the match. Just be happy to see them getting first to the ball, and find a way to protect them from the hunters.

If you make a Murphy, Walsh or Fisher type go head to head with a Hodge type, you lose, plain and simple. Our real problem is having Pittonet, McKay, McGovern or Casboult sized blokes watching our little blokes get cleaned up!

Opponents go fearlessly towards our smalls guys because we've nobody protecting them!

We've a couple of guys who are big bodied, but play like small, Setterfield and Marchbank come to mind. Young SoJ when he is on the ball at least makes opponents answer for their actions.

If he could get fit and stay healthy, Kennedy is a nice option for inside stoppage work but he's slow, he has to be counterbalanced with some quick peripheral players and we've got none at the moment.

Gibbon's is a great footballer, love him like I love Brock McLean as a smart footballer, but they both have the same problem, mud would outrun them!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"