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Re: Best Line Up - 2013 vs 2014

Reply #16 –
Quote from: BlueAvenger – on
Quote from: laj – on
I like the idea of one ruck and the relief such as Casboult. I also like, and prefer, a spine of Jamison FB, Watson, who does ok each time he plays, at CHB, Henderson CHF and Waite FF. That means though we have to play the 2 rucks as well, who can slow up our mobility.

Maybe the other thing we can do is move Waite to the wing, as Richmond did with Richo late in his career, and play Casboult rather than a 2nd ruckman. Waite would play there well and it might just improve our midfield a bit too.
I like the idea of one ruck too, which is why Jesse White partnered with Kruezer would have been ideal. I prefer Warnock in over Casboult though, unless by some miracle he learns how to kick this off season. Rowe just runs out of puff too quick. Warnock trumps him too. Increasing Waites workload= bad idea. Already made of Glass and it robs us of some serious scoring power.

Depends what you want to do. To me it's either two KPF's or two rucks. Two of each just slows us up. I always prefer two KPFs as you have to score to win. more important than a few extra tapouts. Warnock and Kreuzer are useless as forwards.

Running around on the wing would be less physical than the bash and crash of being a KPF for Waite. Only do that though if we decide to play if we decided to play both Henderson and Casboult forward, the latter rucking, with Watson in defence.

As for Rowe, after another year after cancer treatment his tank may improve quite a bit.

Re: Best Line Up - 2013 vs 2014

Reply #17 –
Two permanent key forwards and a resting ruck is the best forward structure. Playing full forward on the best defender and then pinch-hitting in the ruck (while your #1 ruck sits on the bench or rests at full forward) destroys your forward line imo. Having the 3 tall set up stretches the defence and makes their third tall defender accountable and also gives you the opportunity to have a genuine ruck man at stoppages for the entire game.

Most teams are changing to this strategy with Pies recruiting White, Freo - Gumbleton, Crows - Podsiadly, Tiges - Hampson and GWS - Mumford.

Re: Best Line Up - 2013 vs 2014

Reply #18 –
Quote from: MilkIt – on
Two permanent key forwards and a resting ruck is the best forward structure. Playing full forward on the best defender and then pinch-hitting in the ruck (while your #1 ruck sits on the bench or rests at full forward) destroys your forward line imo. Having the 3 tall set up stretches the defence and makes their third tall defender accountable and also gives you the opportunity to have a genuine ruck man at stoppages for the entire game.

Most teams are changing to this strategy with Pies recruiting White, Freo - Gumbleton, Crows - Podsiadly, Tiges - Hampson and GWS - Mumford.

Yep, great post, couldn't agree more.

Playing one tall and a resting ruckman as your key forwards just makes it too easy for opposition to set up and defend against you. The third tall defender that every team has (in order to combat a resting ruckman) can just double team your one true key forward if that is all you have on the field. Hell, even our rucks would kick more goals if they were allowed to rest in a pocket rather than being expected to take one of the opposition's best defenders every week. Our rucks would probably get injured less also.

We need to get smarter and modernise our tactics. I know we initially tried the resting ruck at full forward thing to try and make the most of the substitute system, but it simply doesn't work.
Just glad I'm old enough to have enjoyed the 1995 Grand Final

Re: Best Line Up - 2013 vs 2014

Reply #19 –
Quote from: BlueAvenger – on
Quote from: Baggers – on
Love to participate, but assuming Docherty and ????? are a part of our club is just too much assumption.
I'm sure you could give it a crack mate  ;)

Okay.... I'll give it a lash based on what we actually have at this minute.

B.  Walker.    Watson.    White.

HB.   Tuohy.    Jamison.   Simpson.

C.    Gibbs.    Judd.    Thomas.

HF.   Menzel.    Henderson.    Yarran.

FF.   Garlett.   Waite.    Kreuzer.

R.    Warnock.   Murphy.   McLean.

I.    Robinson.  Armfield.   Curnow.   Bell.

E.   Casboult.   Graham.  Carrazzo.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: Best Line Up - 2013 vs 2014

Reply #20 –
Quote from: Baggers – on
Quote from: BlueAvenger – on
Quote from: Baggers – on
Love to participate, but assuming Docherty and ????? are a part of our club is just too much assumption.
I'm sure you could give it a crack mate  ;)

Okay.... I'll give it a lash based on what we actually have at this minute.

B.  Walker.    Watson.    White.

HB.   Tuohy.    Jamison.   Simpson.

C.    Gibbs.    Judd.    Armfield.

HF.   Menzel.    Henderson.    Yarran.

FF.   Garlett.   Waite.    Kreuzer.

R.    Warnock.   Murphy.   McLean.

I.    Robinson.  Graham.   Curnow.   Bell.

E.   Casboult.   Duigan.  Carrazzo.
Daisy not good enuff?
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership

Re: Best Line Up - 2013 vs 2014

Reply #21 –
Quote from: Baggers – on
Quote from: BlueAvenger – on
Quote from: Baggers – on
Love to participate, but assuming Docherty and ????? are a part of our club is just too much assumption.
I'm sure you could give it a crack mate  ;)

Okay.... I'll give it a lash based on what we actually have at this minute.

B.  Walker.    Watson.    White.

HB.   Tuohy.    Jamison.   Simpson.

C.    Gibbs.    Judd.    Armfield.

HF.   Menzel.    Henderson.    Yarran.

FF.   Garlett.   Waite.    Kreuzer.

R.    Warnock.   Murphy.   McLean.

I.    Robinson.  Graham.   Curnow.   Bell.

E.   Casboult.   Duigan.  Carrazzo.

Glad to see you included Simon White in the team Baggers...had a terrible injury scare and could have ended up paralysed last season, an honest warrior but the type that Mick could develop into a Nick Maxwell and I do like the way he tackles...
 

Re: Best Line Up - 2013 vs 2014

Reply #22 –
Elwood you haven't made space for Daisy there ??
This digital world is too much for us insects to understand.

Re: Best Line Up - 2013 vs 2014

Reply #23 –
Quote from: Mantis – on
Elwood you haven't made space for Daisy there ??

Elwood was just quoting Baggers' team.

And I can understand not including Docherty yet, but Thomas? It's not assumption to include him in the side, he's already a Carlton listed player and I daresay we're not paying him almost $700k a year in order to run him around with the seconds.
Just glad I'm old enough to have enjoyed the 1995 Grand Final

Re: Best Line Up - 2013 vs 2014

Reply #24 –
Quote from: Baggers – on
Quote from: BlueAvenger – on
Quote from: Baggers – on
Love to participate, but assuming Docherty and ????? are a part of our club is just too much assumption.
I'm sure you could give it a crack mate  ;)

Okay.... I'll give it a lash based on what we actually have at this minute.

B.  Walker.    Watson.    White.

HB.   Tuohy.    Jamison.   Simpson.

C.    Gibbs.    Judd.    Thomas.

HF.   Menzel.    Henderson.    Yarran.

FF.   Garlett.   Waite.    Kreuzer.

R.    Warnock.   Murphy.   McLean.

I.    Robinson.  Armfield.   Curnow.   Bell.

E.   Casboult.   Graham.  Carrazzo.

Fixed. Naughty and silly Baggers leaving out Thomas :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :) Not a conscious decision, just a dumb error.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: Best Line Up - 2013 vs 2014

Reply #25 –
To push for a flag, you need 5 or 6 players who can make a claim at AA selection.

The days of this for Judd have gone, same too Scotto and Waite. Possibly Carrots too.

Thomas, Muprhy, Henderson, Jamison (though has waned recently), Yarran, Gibbs, maybe special K are all posibilities but all have big question marks.

Doesn't seem enough quality and our foot soldiers all have major deficiencies. Will be an interesting year.

Re: Best Line Up - 2013 vs 2014

Reply #26 –
Quote from: ItsOurTime – on
To push for a flag, you need 5 or 6 players who can make a claim at AA selection.

The days of this for Judd have gone, same too Scotto and Waite. Possibly Carrots too.

Thomas, Muprhy, Henderson, Jamison (though has waned recently), Yarran, Gibbs, maybe special K are all posibilities but all have big question marks.

Doesn't seem enough quality and our foot soldiers all have major deficiencies. Will be an interesting year.

Agree with you there, 2014 is a very important year for our development. We can't blame the new coach/new game plan thing anymore, Everyone on the list for 2014 should be absolutely on board with all of that, and Mick should have a much better understanding of how to get the best out of the playing group. You only get that understanding through experience, but he'll have had plenty of time by then.

We could either jump up like Freo did under Ross Lyon, or we could slip even further down the ladder.

Make or break year for everyone at the club next year, really.

No excuses should be tolerated at any level.
Just glad I'm old enough to have enjoyed the 1995 Grand Final

Re: Best Line Up - 2013 vs 2014

Reply #27 –
Quote from: nathbear – on
Quote from: ItsOurTime – on
To push for a flag, you need 5 or 6 players who can make a claim at AA selection.

The days of this for Judd have gone, same too Scotto and Waite. Possibly Carrots too.

Thomas, Muprhy, Henderson, Jamison (though has waned recently), Yarran, Gibbs, maybe special K are all posibilities but all have big question marks.

Doesn't seem enough quality and our foot soldiers all have major deficiencies. Will be an interesting year.

Agree with you there, 2014 is a very important year for our development. We can't blame the new coach/new game plan thing anymore, Everyone on the list for 2014 should be absolutely on board with all of that, and Mick should have a much better understanding of how to get the best out of the playing group. You only get that understanding through experience, but he'll have had plenty of time by then.

We could either jump up like Freo did under Ross Lyon, or we could slip even further down the ladder.

Make or break year for everyone at the club next year, really.

No excuses should be tolerated at any level.

Agree, and it'll be down to pretty much the same list we fielded this year. Can't say I'm feeling optimistic but if things go pear shaped at least it will be a good reason to clear out the club's management and admin. from board down to bootstudders.
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: Best Line Up - 2013 vs 2014

Reply #28 –
Quote from: cookie2 – on

Agree, and it'll be down to pretty much the same list we fielded this year. Can't say I'm feeling optimistic but if things go pear shaped at least it will be a good reason to clear out the club's management and admin. from board down to bootstudders.

Like there are not enough reasons already !!!

The bigger question IMO is who is going to push them out?  We all talk about it, but who or how many are prepared to actually stand up to the president and the board and cause the change?

And an even bigger question is, who will/can come in and replace them?

Not having a go at you Cookie, but all out talk on here (including mine) is cheap if we don't back it up with some kind of action !!
Reminds me of the quote - "all it takes for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing." !!
Mens sana in corpore sano - A healthy mind in a healthy body.

Navy, it's not just a color, it's an attitude !!!

Re: Best Line Up - 2013 vs 2014

Reply #29 –
@Amers

All we can do on here Amers is talk - this is a talking forum after all. In answer to your question the short answer is I don't know, but there must be some high profile Bluebaggers who would be just as p1ssed off as we are with the club and motivated to put together a ticket?
 
I know I'm not offering a solution, just highlighting the problems, but I would think the first thing that needs to be done is to find the credible person a good management team could form around and who would become the new president. Kochie was a good choice for the Power and, as much as I hate to say this, Eddie has transformed the Pies from the train wreck they were when he took over.

PS.
Unfortunately history shows us that these kind of people only seem to emerge when a club has hit or is near rock bottom. If MM doesn't really work some magic on field we would certainly be heading that way next year.
Reality always wins in the end.