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Topic: The rise.... and RISE of Marc Pittonet (Read 95811 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: The Ruck Division .... Is It Really Competent Enough ??

Reply #270 –
Quote from: laj – on
Sounds ally good until it actually happens and goes crap because TDK would struggle more forward. I'm more inclined to give Harry time in the ruck. He'd help around the ground. Nothing like a nice gallop around the ground free of the restraints of a defender to get a bit confidence.

Interesting to say but we miss Levi. May have been a jack of all trades, master of none, but having a 2nd ruck, who can ruck competently, mark around the ground and hit the scoreboard will be handy. Harry is probably the one who could play a similar role, part of it an upgrade (Levi might have been a better actual ruck, hence "part").

Levi's played some good footy the last 2 years, possibly his best footy, and free from the jinx of having a navy blue jumper on him (haha), kicking way better at goal.

No point 'hitting the scoreboard' if its because the ball has come off the side of the boot so far its hit the scoreboard in the FP on level 3 ;)
We forget how unreliable Casboult is/was.

I reckon Jack is the new Casboult.
Not as good in the air (who is?), but better on the ground and equal in the ruck (considering his limited minutes)

Re: The Ruck Division .... Is It Really Competent Enough ??

Reply #271 –
In 2023 Levi's kick 5-2 from six(6) games, sprinkled with the usual set of complete misses, that's less effective than Motlop and Motlop is dead ordinary.

At the moment SoJ could play Motlop's role better if he wasn't burdened with frequently losing ruck contests.

I'm assuming if TDK isn't an in sometime over the next two weeks then it's because he wants out, although Cook thought we are still a good chance to retain him, he's needed.

I'd bring TDK in to rotate in the ruck with Pitto, kybosh Motlop for a some VFL development, bring SoJ into the crumbing marking target role for the F50, leave Owies and Durdin working as the SFs. Keep Charlie and BigH at least 25m apart whenever possible. We need one of our rucks floating forward, when SoJ rucks we lose too much contest in F50, Pitto is not big on pushing forward but he's quite useful dropping into the hole in D50 zones.

You can see that from this post I think our ruck and F50 issues go hand in hand, it's not coincidence both are currently suffering.

If Weiters or Gov feck up one or two disposals a game fans lambaste them without mercy, Pitto sends a large percentage of his clear taps directly to our opposition and seems to be free of criticism, we can call him teflon!

So do I assume those fans that think Pitto is mustard have determined Cripps, Cerra, Hewett, Kennedy and Walsh to be Mickey Mouse, otherwise how else to they explain the conclusion that our ruck work is OK from the outcome we have?
Clearances Carlton 36 - Bulldogs 44
Hitouts Carlton 53 - Bulldogs 38

Maybe the AFL needs to ask for a new stat, RTC (Ruck Tap Clanger)
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: The Ruck Division .... Is It Really Competent Enough ??

Reply #272 –
Anyone pining for Levi is suffering from Ex girlfriend syndrome.

Forgetting the bad, and only remembering the good.

Levi was worse than Mckay in terms of set shot reliability.  This season Mckay has been ordinary, but he has been a fairly reliable kick up until 2023 even if it was unorthodox.   Levi was all over the shop, and he missed from directly in front 10 meters out.

He wasnt that great a ruckman either, but he had the best mark in the competition provided he could run and jump at it, and id argue that Harry is no different in that department either.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: The Ruck Division .... Is It Really Competent Enough ??

Reply #273 –
Quote from: laj – on
Sounds ally good until it actually happens and goes crap because TDK would struggle more forward. I'm more inclined to give Harry time in the ruck. He'd help around the ground. Nothing like a nice gallop around the ground free of the restraints of a defender to get a bit confidence.

Interesting to say but we miss Levi. May have been a jack of all trades, master of none, but having a 2nd ruck, who can ruck competently, mark around the ground and hit the scoreboard will be handy. Harry is probably the one who could play a similar role, part of it an upgrade (Levi might have been a better actual ruck, hence "part").

Levi's played some good footy the last 2 years, possibly his best footy, and free from the jinx of having a navy blue jumper on him (haha), kicking way better at goal.

Harry needs to go to the 2's and monster the VFL.  It worked with Weitering all those years ago.  He went down played against Frankston, took about 20 intercept marks, and it sorted out his AFL form.

I wager, that Harry going down will cause a few things. 

1.  The crap free kicks he tries to play for would start to vanish from his game at AFL level and he would start keeping his feet in contests more. 

2.  He would start to sort out his goal kicking because the wind conditions in the open VFL parks, would force him to work out how to kick the fecking thing straight. 

3.  He might bust a VFL game open kick 10, and then come back into the AFL and rediscover his goal kicking form.  That game vs West Coast was a worry.  We scored a cricket score and had a key forward only kick 2.1.  Sure, Charlie got 9, but these two should have had 6 each at the end of the game.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: The Ruck Division .... Is It Really Competent Enough ??

Reply #274 –
Quote from: laj – on
Sounds ally good until it actually happens and goes crap because TDK would struggle more forward. I'm more inclined to give Harry time in the ruck. He'd help around the ground. Nothing like a nice gallop around the ground free of the restraints of a defender to get a bit confidence.

Interesting to say but we miss Levi. May have been a jack of all trades, master of none, but having a 2nd ruck, who can ruck competently, mark around the ground and hit the scoreboard will be handy. Harry is probably the one who could play a similar role, part of it an upgrade (Levi might have been a better actual ruck, hence "part").

Levi's played some good footy the last 2 years, possibly his best footy, and free from the jinx of having a navy blue jumper on him (haha), kicking way better at goal.
[/quoted]
Said this before, Harry getting some warm up time in the ruck isn't a bad idea.
Sending him back to the twos won't do much imho, he will kick goals on kids from the burbs and find it too easy and will learn nothing.

Re: The Ruck Division .... Is It Really Competent Enough ??

Reply #275 –
Quote from: laj – on
Sounds ally good until it actually happens and goes crap because TDK would struggle more forward. I'm more inclined to give Harry time in the ruck. He'd help around the ground. Nothing like a nice gallop around the ground free of the restraints of a defender to get a bit confidence.

Interesting to say but we miss Levi. May have been a jack of all trades, master of none, but having a 2nd ruck, who can ruck competently, mark around the ground and hit the scoreboard will be handy. Harry is probably the one who could play a similar role, part of it an upgrade (Levi might have been a better actual ruck, hence "part").

Levi's played some good footy the last 2 years, possibly his best footy, and free from the jinx of having a navy blue jumper on him (haha), kicking way better at goal.

Couldn't agree more. H, in some ways, is a wasted resource as he is very quick over the grass enabling him to get from contest to contest, has a piercing and often accurate left foot disposal, takes a good mark and is highly competitive. We could do more to help him get more out of his abilities, not to mention the confidence build that would come from such a move... to a 2nd ruck.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: The Ruck Division .... Is It Really Competent Enough ??

Reply #276 –
He's too fragile otherwise he would already be doing it.
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: The Ruck Division .... Is It Really Competent Enough ??

Reply #277 –
Quote from: madbluboy – on
He's too fragile otherwise he would already be doing it.
We can find B-Grade ruck options, they are a dime a dozen, we already have and are using more than one at the moment, we got some in reserve, perhaps they are ranked C-Grade.

A-Grade KPFs are like a needle in a haystack. Why the feck would we want to feck up BigH's knees by exposing him to a bastardry of flogging him as ruck option against the likes of a Nankervis, Witts, Goldstein or Darcy?

Are we going to stupidly allow an elite KPP be smashed in the ruck, then complain about it after the fact like Scott has complained about Blicsavs being pulverised? Leave Scott sending his elite runner in for a bruising, it's good for every other club that happens, we do not have to follow that trend!

Leave our duds rucking and get our Mids effectively roving to the losing ruck, given how good some claim Pitto to be it seems our opposition find it easy to rove to their own losing ruck. Unless of course Pitto isn't quite as good as some claim! ;)
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: The Ruck Division .... Is It Really Competent Enough ??

Reply #278 –
Football's changed a fair bit over the years....but Ruckmen still mostly do ruck things and key position forwards still kick goals.
Graham Teasdale (77 Brownlow winner) and Paul Salmon (Essendon and Hawthorn) are two who made the transition from key forwards to ruckmen.

I don't know...
Harry seems lacking in confidence, but only around goals.
He's still contributing around the ground.

The options seem to be...
a) Send him back to the VFL to get some confidence in his goalkicking back.
b) Keep playing him in the same role and hope he works his way through it.
c) Try him in a different position (Ruck, Centre-Half-Back)

If he continues to play the same role they really have to sort out that forward situation and he needs to sort his kicking because it can be a momentum killer and game changer.

Re: The Ruck Division .... Is It Really Competent Enough ??

Reply #279 –
@Lods the only negative to putting him in the VFL is the impact it may have to Charlie and him being worn like a glove.  It might change the mindset of everyone though and allow others to start chipping in more in his absence, and will likely sort out his own form.  I dont see the point putting him elsewhere on the park unrehearsed, its likely to cause more issues than it solves.  The one thing that I can see, is that the yips seem to be spreading where everyone is kicking like Harry did, and maybe that will send him a message better than anything else can.  Watching Motlop and Cripps do what he did might snap him out of it.  Its a pity we have to throw important games away in the process. 

For mine, we dont respect the VFL enough and thats another reason to send him there. 
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: The Ruck Division .... Is It Really Competent Enough ??

Reply #280 –
We had a discussion like this just a few weeks back and the next week Charlie kicks 9 goals.

This is what happens with KPFs, they are not like Mids, they don't go out and get 5 or 6 every week, and that is exactly the point I made before the Wet Toast game.

A big problem is the fan expectation of the KPFs, and the fact that in the absence of Owies our other avenues to goal are massively underperforming. In recent weeks Voss has tried getting Harry and Charlie further up the ground, and they both do well as hit up targets, but when he's done that in the absence of Owies absence we are getting squat out of Motlop and Durdin.

FFS, Harry took 9 marks last weekend, our top ranked player in marking stats. That in itself just highlights the poor output form a smalls and mediums, because usually it's onballers or medium runners that take the most marks in an AFL team, for us it's a KPP! Last weekend Acres took just 2, and Pitto the biggest bull on the ground a fat 0!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: The Ruck Division .... Is It Really Competent Enough ??

Reply #281 –
Poor old Harry is copping it yet we have a few players well out of form and who let us down. It wasnt Harry who was in the middle for the last 5 minutes spectating and watching Libba, Smith and Bont take over.
Reckon Harry will clunk a few this week and be a matchwinner with 5 goals, Pies are due for a loss and are light on for tall defenders.
Id leave Harry closer to goal and have Charlie drag the other defenders away and I reckon Harry will get it done.

Re: The Ruck Division .... Is It Really Competent Enough ??

Reply #282 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on
@Lods the only negative to putting him in the VFL is the impact it may have to Charlie and him being worn like a glove.  It might change the mindset of everyone though and allow others to start chipping in more in his absence, and will likely sort out his own form.  I dont see the point putting him elsewhere on the park unrehearsed, its likely to cause more issues than it solves.  The one thing that I can see, is that the yips seem to be spreading where everyone is kicking like Harry did, and maybe that will send him a message better than anything else can.  Watching Motlop and Cripps do what he did might snap him out of it.  Its a pity we have to throw important games away in the process. 

For mine, we dont respect the VFL enough and thats another reason to send him there. 

If we could be confident of other avenues to goal the concentration on Charlie mightn't be a bad thing.
But we can't and all options come with a fair amount of risk.

Quote from: LP – on
We had a discussion like this just a few weeks back and the next week Charlie kicks 9 goals.

That's the letting him work through it option...the question is will that do more harm than good?
And that's a chance they'll have to take.

Whatever option we take the goal is the same.
We need McKay contributing and playing with confidence.
I think we'd all like to see him back, kicking mutiple goals on a regular basis...but whichever path we take he's too good, and too big a player not to have some role that benefits the side.

Re: The Ruck Division .... Is It Really Competent Enough ??

Reply #283 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Id leave Harry closer to goal and have Charlie drag the other defenders away and I reckon Harry will get it done.
We've a problem with Motlop, his aerobic capacity is shizen, so as the game wears on he covers less and less ground and camps himself and the spare opposition defender next to the KPFs, instead he should be running at full pelt back into the front and square space on the move, not standing there arms out like a beggar! The lack of run means Motlop's opponent is always there and available to give the oppositions KPD a chop-out.

Last weekend, Richards and Johannisen basically got a 20 possession head start from Motlop and Durdin before our blokes touched the footy.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: The Ruck Division .... Is It Really Competent Enough ??

Reply #284 –
Quote from: Lods – on
If we could be confident of other avenues to goal the concentration on Charlie mightn't be a bad thing.
For the life of me I can't see how our already monolithic focus on the KPFs will somehow be improved by removing one leaving the other as the sole point of focus!

If we want one out SoJ might be the logical choice given the Filth have not much in ruck stocks at the moment, leave Harry and Charlie  as is, and Young, Harry and Cripps doing the zone work.

Our big problem this week is going to be the Filth's Mosquito fleet forward setup, not the KPPs.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"