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Re: General Discussions

Reply #420 –
Hawk? For me the last politician who gave a genuine fork about the people.
Fraser and Menzies being good Bluebaggers surely an a advantage.
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership

Re: General Discussions

Reply #421 –
Quote from: Gointocarlton – on
Hawk? For me the last politician who gave a genuine fork about the people.
Fraser and Menzies being good Bluebaggers surely an a advantage.
Bob Hawke lost me when he traded in Hazel for Blanche....
Malcom Fraser I could never warm too...

Re: General Discussions

Reply #422 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Bob Hawke lost me when he traded in Hazel for Blanche....
Malcom Fraser I could never warm too...
Hawk was a ratbag "off field" no doubt, but he did a bloody good job as PM because he cared. The current polis wouldn't carry his bags. All I remember of Sir Robert was watching his state funeral as a kid with my dad and the picture of him watching the Blues at PP from the front seat of his government Roller on a special stand. As for Mal, just google Alex Marcou's "Fabulous" story.
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership

Re: General Discussions

Reply #423 –
People will vote according to their own political leanings.

Gough was a progressive, visionary leader but as far as running a tight, disciplined ship he was an absolute dud.

The winner is  (he'll get votes from both sides).... Bob Hawke. ;D

Re: General Discussions

Reply #424 –
Quote from: Lods – on
...

The winner is  (he'll get votes from both sides).... Bob Hawke. ;D

It's been an issue for Labor since at least the 80's. With a general drift in political attitudes towards the right, Labor was forced to become New Labor, or Liberal Lite, or whatever you want to call it. Staying true to hard core, old school Labor values like Jeremy Corbyn means a wipe out in elections (at least in English speaking countries). I understood why Labor went the way they did under Hawke / Keating, but it was the beginning of the end for me.

Re: General Discussions

Reply #425 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
It's been an issue for Labor since at least the 80's. With a general drift in political attitudes towards the right, Labor was forced to become New Labor, or Liberal Lite, or whatever you want to call it. Staying true to hard core, old school Labor values like Jeremy Corbyn means a wipe out in elections (at least in English speaking countries). I understood why Labor went the way they did under Hawke / Keating, but it was the beginning of the end for me.


I initially had the best 'Liberal Prime Minister... Bob Hawke' in my post.
It wasn't accurate, but what Hawke did do was find the sweet spot that appealed to a large number of middle of the road voters.
I know a few long time LNP voters in my family switched sides during his tenure...and stayed Labor.

Re: General Discussions

Reply #426 –
Quote from: Lods – on
People will vote according to their own political leanings.

Gough was a progressive, visionary leader but as far as running a tight, disciplined ship he was an absolute dud.

The winner is  (he'll get votes from both sides).... Bob Hawke. ;D
For the record, I don't vote Labour but rate Hawk as the best PM. Little Johnny also seemed to care about the people also. After and since those guys, dig a big hole, push em all in it and back fill it fast.
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership

Re: General Discussions

Reply #427 –
Quote from: Gointocarlton – on
For the record, I don't vote Labour but rate Hawk as the best PM. Little Johnny also seemed to care about the people also. After and since those guys, dig a big hole, push em all in it and back fill it fast.

That actually kind of supports what I was saying...'Folks will vote according to their own political leanings' ...but Hawke is one who blurred those political lines to the point that many LNP voters were/are quite comfortable acknowledging  and appreciating his time as Prime Minister.

Re: General Discussions

Reply #428 –
Howard was a great PM ... Hawke (forget the maritals) was also more than capable.

Re: General Discussions

Reply #429 –
Three things that I can't stand about Howard.   First two are about looking after those who can already look after themselves.  
1) Legacy of 50% discount for capital gains.  This kicked off housing unaffordability (aing with some other housing policies). 

2) Full refund of franking credits.  It's wrong makes no sense and is costing a lot now.

3) Tampa.  Disgusting.   Set the tone for Abbott, Dutton and others.  Horrible legacy.

The good thing he did was gun laws.

Re: General Discussions

Reply #430 –
Quote from: dodge – on
Three things that I can't stand about Howard.   First two are about looking after those who can already look after themselves.  
1) Legacy of 50% discount for capital gains.  This kicked off housing unaffordability (aing with some other housing policies). 

2) Full refund of franking credits.  It's wrong makes no sense and is costing a lot now.

3) Tampa.  Disgusting.   Set the tone for Abbott, Dutton and others.  Horrible legacy.

The good thing he did was gun laws.
You need to means test franking credits and cap them for anyone earning over 80-100k.
If you scrap them completely then you will have a lot of self funded retirees qualifying for the pension, dropping their private health insurance and getting health care cards etc.
You want to deny the Twiggy Forests etc who earn millions in dividends but not punish the little bloke who earns 40k and uses those franking credits for his health insurance etc and who will become a burden on the pension  and health care system.
 

Re: General Discussions

Reply #431 –
Hawke owed a lot to Keating and Howard owed much to Costello imo.
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: General Discussions

Reply #432 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
You need to means test franking credits and cap them for anyone earning over 80-100k.
If you scrap them completely then you will have a lot of self funded retirees qualifying for the pension, dropping their private health insurance and getting health care cards etc.
You want to deny the Twiggy Forests etc who earn millions in dividends but not punish the little bloke who earns 40k and uses those franking credits for his health insurance etc and who will become a burden on the pension  and health care system.
I don't disagree - finding the right balance is the hard bit.  No one should be seen as 'a burden on the pension and health care system'.

Re: General Discussions

Reply #433 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
You need to means test franking credits and cap them for anyone earning over 80-100k.
If you scrap them completely then you will have a lot of self funded retirees qualifying for the pension, dropping their private health insurance and getting health care cards etc.
You want to deny the Twiggy Forests etc who earn millions in dividends but not punish the little bloke who earns 40k and uses those franking credits for his health insurance etc and who will become a burden on the pension  and health care system.

I agree, but I think the thresholds should be geared to the average wage, so that it scales automatically as the economic environment changes. Also, as part of this I think the Feds need to look at issues like provisional tax. The problem I see is that the sole trader types and tradies can dabble in the share market and have massively variable income from year to year but not be earning that much on average. So if they have a very good year and the thresholds are set too low you can really punish their earnings. Alternatively maybe make these calculations based on an average over a few years.

What do you do when someone like Packer or Rinehart declare an income of $35K, while their wealth doubles and the number of people they employ plummets?
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: General Discussions

Reply #434 –
Quote from: dodge – on
I don't disagree - finding the right balance is the hard bit.  No one should be seen as 'a burden on the pension and health care system'.
Not great terminology being a burden but thats how governments view it and why they want everyone with superannuation so they can scrap pensions in the long term. The sad part is we need people paying Private Insurance to help take the pressure off the public system, fund private hospitals and find that right balance.
What we dont want is the likes of Twiggy, Gina Reihardt, etc etc paying no tax and getting bucket loads of franking credits....