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Re: General Discussions

Reply #2520
Well if we produce Li2O at $4 a pound, and somebody who doesn't pay their workers sells for $2 a pound, then how does the local producer survive?
DrE is no more... you ok with that harmonica man?

Re: General Discussions

Reply #2521
Are subsidies where you really want to go ?

We can either charge others a premium for our stuff, gas etc.

Which means we can give our own companies a break so we can survive in times like these.

Or we can continue to be so reliant on others that our whole country tips upside down at every conflict, outbreak or whim.

We have everything we need here. We need to do something to create some stability.

What other options do we have?

Re: General Discussions

Reply #2522
Others call them tariffs
DrE is no more... you ok with that harmonica man?

Re: General Discussions

Reply #2523
Well if we produce Li2O at $4 a pound, and somebody who doesn't pay their workers sells for $2 a pound, then how does the local producer survive?

Swings and roundabouts....and averages.

In times like this it might cost you $10!
.....as well as everything else.

We need to produce local, be encouraged to buy local and stop selling off our resources at bargain basement prices.

If we gave ourselves discounted power, gas etc. We could afford to spend more on local.

Re: General Discussions

Reply #2524
I make and sell tools so this is what I know.
Just to get an "Australian made" sticker takes a vetting process and ain't cheap. 

Buying local sounds great in principle but the reality is...if the local hardware store sells a locally made shovel for $70 and Asian made rubbish for $50, people buy the cheaper option everytime. Price wins out every time.
Bunnings has the ultimate business model....sell Asian-made junk at multiple, still cheap price points....makes that rubbish 50 shovel look like a premium product over the $20 one. Both are still cheaper than locally made.   Meanwhile local industry continues to be outsourced under free trade agreements.
Price always wins.  Simple consumer economics.
DrE is no more... you ok with that harmonica man?

Re: General Discussions

Reply #2525
I make and sell tools so this is what I know.
Just to get an "Australian made" sticker takes a vetting process and ain't cheap. 

Buying local sounds great in principle but the reality is...if the local hardware store sells a locally made shovel for $70 and Asian made rubbish for $50, people buy the cheaper option everytime. Price wins out every time.
Bunnings has the ultimate business model....sell Asian-made junk at multiple, still cheap price points....makes that rubbish 50 shovel look like a premium product over the $20 one. Both are still cheaper than locally made.   Meanwhile local industry continues to be outsourced under free trade agreements.
Price always wins.  Simple consumer economics.

So why do i buy milwaukee tools if ozito is cheaper?

It is NOT always about price.

Educate people as to what short term benefits ultimately end up looking like.

Re: General Discussions

Reply #2526
Are subsidies where you really want to go ?
Well, that is what you have to compete with, China operations are subsidised by default. Much of the imported product we buy is being produced under subsidy, we do not compete on equal terms.

Recall when GM moved to the Philippines, they took hundreds of million$ to stay another year or two, then took another few hundred million$ to move anyway. That is weak legislation and weak politics that allows that to happen. If they did that in China they'd ........................

If I want to make batteries in China, the CCP will become a 51% shareholder and build the factory for me which is repaid through dividends and various fees and taxes. It's a long term view. I have no up front capital, I have no approvals to seek, the government does it. If I feck up the business, the government gives me the lemon sars and finds a new partner, if I feck up very badly I'll go missing.

This is the primary reason nobody can compete with China on things like SolarPV and Batteries, Phones, Power Tools, etc., etc.. You are not competing with a company as a company, you are a company competing with a government that has a last man standing mentality. For China, India, and to some degree Russia and the USA, economics is war.

India has started doing the same basic thing for manufacturing, at the moment India is so heavily subsidised I have Chinese colleagues buying from India rather than making in China. But they see it as a now and then scenario, they take the profit now, then use it to fund the fight back then when India's subsidies and resources are strained.

Australian Politicians think you can compete on ingenuity and hard work, but the economic terms are not even which makes it impossible.

The same applies to primary produce and resources, both of which Australia shoots itself in the foot by not adding any value.

The big corporations can do this but only if they choose to invest, and can do so under the protection of valid anti-dumping legislation.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: General Discussions

Reply #2527
I make and sell tools so this is what I know.
Just to get an "Australian made" sticker takes a vetting process and ain't cheap. 

Buying local sounds great in principle but the reality is...if the local hardware store sells a locally made shovel for $70 and Asian made rubbish for $50, people buy the cheaper option everytime. Price wins out every time.
Bunnings has the ultimate business model....sell Asian-made junk at multiple, still cheap price points....makes that rubbish 50 shovel look like a premium product over the $20 one. Both are still cheaper than locally made.   Meanwhile local industry continues to be outsourced under free trade agreements.
Price always wins.  Simple consumer economics.

So why do i buy milwaukee tools if ozito is cheaper?

It is NOT always about price.

Educate people as to what short term benefits ultimately end up looking like.
You know the difference in the quality, and Joe Average who just wants to drill three holes in a piece of wood or drive his kids to school isnt going to care if its a Milwaukee or Hilti Power Drill or an Ozito or if its a Lexus or a Haval Jolion as long as it gets the job done for the least amount of money. Longevity in Products isnt as important as when we were younger and you hung onto tools for life and cars for 20 years etc.
You can try educating people but most want to know how much its costs not what it does or how long it will last, not everyone you run into is educated on a variety of subjects, can read and write well and a lot are borderline ignorant but you rarely find anyone who cant count money or work out whats expensive and what isnt.
Its like going to the dentist and finding you need root canal treatment and then subsequently a Crown, looking at $4K to get the job done and 6 hours total in the dentist chair or the alternative have an extraction for $150 in 15 mins.....how many people would stop and think I might need that tooth to be able to chew and eat my food or how many will just look at the price?
 

 

Re: General Discussions

Reply #2528

Its like going to the dentist and finding you need root canal treatment and then subsequently a Crown, looking at $4K to get the job done and 6 hours total in the dentist chair or the alternative have an extraction for $150 in 15 mins.....how many people would stop and think I might need that tooth to be able to chew and eat my food or how many will just look at the price?
A bloke at work just lost a cousin, flew to Thailand for one of those "holiday and dental" deals and never returned, the family had to fork out to repatriate the body and there was no refund, insurance invalid, dough done life gone for what looked like a 50% discount. Some might say he was lucky, there are many who return disfigured and end up paying fortunes at this end to have it fixed, if they can!

Another chap I know has decided the discount route, option one was local $20k several visits over a couple of months, implant job done for life he's 60 already. Options two was $2k, pull the lot, wait 6 months for the gums to decide to shrink and eventually have a false set or bridge for a fraction of the cost, what's 6 months of gumming a steak between friends? He's living on soup and looks like Ms McGillicuddy, and planning to have the falsies done in Bali, of course!

"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: General Discussions

Reply #2529

Its like going to the dentist and finding you need root canal treatment and then subsequently a Crown, looking at $4K to get the job done and 6 hours total in the dentist chair or the alternative have an extraction for $150 in 15 mins.....how many people would stop and think I might need that tooth to be able to chew and eat my food or how many will just look at the price?
A bloke at work just lost a cousin, flew to Thailand for one of those "holiday and dental" deals and never returned, the family had to fork out to repatriate the body and there was no refund, insurance invalid, dough done life gone for what looked like a 50% discount. Some might say he was lucky, there are many who return disfigured and end up paying fortunes at this end to have it fixed, if they can!

Another chap I know has decided the discount route, option one was local $20k several visits over a couple of months, implant job done for life he's 60 already. Options two was $2k, pull the lot, wait 6 months for the gums to decide to shrink and eventually have a false set or bridge for a fraction of the cost, what's 6 months of gumming a steak between friends? He's living on soup and looks like Ms McGillicuddy, and planning to have the falsies done in Bali, of course!


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