Carlton Supporters Club

Interested to see the results of the recent vote in the UN to declare the Transatlantic slave trade "the gravest crime against humanity." 123 states voted in favour, 52 abstentions, and 3 states voted against.

Compulsory work for those serving prison sentences is a legitimate part of judicial punishment.  It's not slavery as there's no legal ownership of prison inmates by governments.

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Australia was one of the 52 nations that abstained and that has drawn criticism from the left.  However, I think that there's merit in Britain's argument that it is wrong to "create a hierarchy of historical atrocities"...............................

In scope, duration, contemporaneous and enduring trauma and devastation caused, and a whole bunch of other effects, the Euro American slave trade is without equal.

Quote from: DJC – on Today at 01:41:24 pm

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Australia was one of the 52 nations that abstained and that has drawn criticism from the left.  However, I think that there's merit in Britain's argument that it is wrong to "create a hierarchy of historical atrocities"...............................

I think we need to be wary, as per the Trump/Jacinta/Albanese comparison, of falling into the trap of false equivalence. The list of atrocities by humans is seemingly endless, but some are indisputable worse than others. The point that "all slavery is bad, why should slave trade x get the attention", has been discussed a lot. In scope, duration, contemporaneous and enduring trauma and devastation caused, and a whole bunch of other effects, the Euro American slave trade is without equal.

Quote from: PaulP – on Today at 02:13:06 pm

In scope, duration, contemporaneous and enduring trauma and devastation caused, and a whole bunch of other effects, the Euro American slave trade is without equal.

Rome wasn't built in a day, nor the pyramids.

I can't think of a Spanish equivalent, or Portuguese, but I'm sure they exist.

What is the cut-off date for the awakening?

I'm not sure that it's quite so clear cut, and that's why I don't think that a hierarchy is appropriate.

It's estimated that at least 10% and probably as much as 25% of the Scandinavian population were slaves during the Viking age and the vast majority of those captured by the Vikings were sold on to slave traders from the Middle East.  Mitochondrial DNA studies of the Icelandic population indicate that more than 60% of the initial colonising female population were Gaelic and most likely slaves.  Then there's the Arab or Trans-Saharan slave trade that endured from the 7th to the 20th century and involved the enslavement of an estimated 9M Africans in the Middle East.

Quote from: DJC – on Today at 02:59:21 pm

I'm not sure that it's quite so clear cut, and that's why I don't think that a hierarchy is appropriate.

It's estimated that at least 10% and probably as much as 25% of the Scandinavian population were slaves during the Viking age and the vast majority of those captured by the Vikings were sold on to slave traders from the Middle East.  Mitochondrial DNA studies of the Icelandic population indicate that more than 60% of the initial colonising female population were Gaelic and most likely slaves.  Then there's the Arab or Trans-Saharan slave trade that endured from the 7th to the 20th century and involved the enslavement of an estimated 9M Africans in the Middle East.

I don't want to get caught up in this jockeying for pole position in the Suffering F1. I feel quite comfortable with the reading I've done and I'll leave it there. Trying to compete wrt who suffered the most does the cause more harm than good, and ends up a kind of self-cannibalism, that dilutes the message rather than keeping it sharp and focussed.

Whether they named this or something else is of secondary importance. If the final aims of this process are achieved, it creates momentum, precedent and potential for others to follow. Future groups will be able to analyze what worked, what did not etc., and be in a better position as a result. It could also splinter off into related histories, such as our own First Nations peoples, who whilst not enslaved as such, have suffered immensely, certainly deserve a lot more than they have received thus far.