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Topic: Post Game Permutation: AFL Rd 12: Carlton vs Fremantle (Read 33891 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: Post Game Permutation: AFL Rd 12: Carlton vs Fremantle

Reply #135 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Your suggesting because Bower got more votes than Simpson one year in a B&F
that makes him a vastly superior player than Williamson... I'm saying the rest of the AFL didn't seem to rate him at all except the kind folk at Carlton who threw him a bone or two at the B&F.
Bower sadly was a running joke as a footballer for opposition fans and our own and remains that way.. I don't see Williamson getting to that comedic level and rate him higher, you disagree then that's fine...

No i'm suggesting Bower was not as bad as your memory (and a few others) make out.

No i'm not suggesting Bower is vastly superior to Williamson.

As i said, i reckon at where they are/were at the same age, that they are basically the same player.
From there, we all know where Bower got to (or didn't get to) in terms of his career. I'm hoping Willo is able to break away from a somewhat similar career path up to this point and do better.

Whole point was that i see A LOT of similarities between them. You, and a few others have turned this into a Paul Bower slagging match in defense of a bloke who was not even being criticised.

Re: Post Game Permutation: AFL Rd 12: Carlton vs Fremantle

Reply #136 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
Whole point was that i see A LOT of similarities between them. You, and a few others have turned this into a Paul Bower slagging match in defense of a bloke who was not even being criticised.
Quote from: kruddler – on
Willo is reminding me, a lot, of Paul Bower.
Dude, seriously?

Re: Post Game Permutation: AFL Rd 12: Carlton vs Fremantle

Reply #137 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
No i'm suggesting Bower was not as bad as your memory (and a few others) make out.

No i'm not suggesting Bower is vastly superior to Williamson.

As i said, i reckon at where they are/were at the same age, that they are basically the same player.
From there, we all know where Bower got to (or didn't get to) in terms of his career. I'm hoping Willo is able to break away from a somewhat similar career path up to this point and do better.

Whole point was that i see A LOT of similarities between them. You, and a few others have turned this into a Paul Bower slagging match in defense of a bloke who was not even being criticised.

I think when you compare any player to the likes of Paul Bower you are going to get a negative reaction but you knew that😉 ,I'm a Williamson fan but happy to admit he has been average to poor since returning from injury but throwing him in the same boat as Bower is extreme and needed defending. I watched a bit of Williamson again from the game and he is running very ginger and upright like he doesnt want pressure on his lower back or fears pressure, given how serious his injury has been I thinks its a bit unfair to be calling him the next Bower in the making..

Re: Post Game Permutation: AFL Rd 12: Carlton vs Fremantle

Reply #138 –
Bower had lots of talent, he looked like he was going to be a gun early in his career. Pretty sure he did the job on Buddy one day and then it was all downhill after that.
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: Post Game Permutation: AFL Rd 12: Carlton vs Fremantle

Reply #139 –
Bower was crippled by injuries.
Just when he started to show some signs down he'd  go again.
When he was fit he was in and out of the side like a yo-yo.
Two week injuries stretched into long periods out.
He even prompted a heated discussion on this site about the club being less than honest about injuries.
Many of us remember those 'deer in the headlight' moments but by that stage his confidence and judgement was shot.
 

Re: Post Game Permutation: AFL Rd 12: Carlton vs Fremantle

Reply #140 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
I think when you compare any player to the likes of Paul Bower you are going to get a negative reaction but you knew that😉 ,I'm a Williamson fan but happy to admit he has been average to poor since returning from injury but throwing him in the same boat as Bower is extreme and needed defending. I watched a bit of Williamson again from the game and he is running very ginger and upright like he doesnt want pressure on his lower back or fears pressure, given how serious his injury has been I thinks its a bit unfair to be calling him the next Bower in the making..

Shame on us really.

One week we're slagging off Plowman, another week Jones or SPS, this week Willo.

Can't we just accept we luckily got the chocolates after a dire game in dismal conditions.

And look forward to the next game.

Willo was no worse than Weitering, Doc or Samo yesterday.
Finals, then 4 in a row!

Re: Post Game Permutation: AFL Rd 12: Carlton vs Fremantle

Reply #141 –
Quote from: madbluboy – on
Bower had lots of talent, he looked like he was going to be a gun early in his career. Pretty sure he did the job on Buddy one day and then it was all downhill after that.

Exactly.
People forget how good he was early on and only remember the howlers he made.

....and injury killed his career.

Things didn't turn out for him after his injuries and despite showing early signs.

....and nobody can see the comparisons with Willo.....and his back....and some of his questionable decisions with ball in hand.

Re: Post Game Permutation: AFL Rd 12: Carlton vs Fremantle

Reply #142 –
Quote from: flyboy77 – on
Shame on us really.

One week we're slagging off Plowman, another week Jones or SPS, this week Willo.

Can't we just accept we luckily got the chocolates after a dire game in dismal conditions.

And look forward to the next game.

Willo was no worse than Weitering, Doc or Samo yesterday.

I thought that those four all had solid games. 

At the start of the game Samo seemed  desperate to get his boot to the ball; under instruction or a hangover from the two terrible frees paid against him last week?  He settled down as the game went on and created opportunities with clever ball use.

Weitering was made to look bad by two awful umpiring decisions but he was his usual reliable self other than that.

Doc did some great work in defence but his role sometimes means that he gets caught out or leaves another defender under the pump.  It wasn't ideal conditions for Doc ... or most of his teammates.

Willo lost the ball when Fyffe fluked a freakish "steal".  That won't happen again for the rest of his career ... and probably not in Fyffe's either.  Willo provides an element of hardness in what is a fairly benign defensive unit and I reckon he is developing nicely.

It would be nice if the critics could acknowledge that their whipping boy(s) had a good game   ::)

On another note, I reckon the saying "Hard as a cat's head" should be replaced by "Hard as Simmo's head"  :D
It's still the Gulf of Mexico, Don Old!

Re: Post Game Permutation: AFL Rd 12: Carlton vs Fremantle

Reply #143 –
Thoughts on our kicking into our F50?

Is it their defenders were so good and knew where to be? Or our forwards not working hard enough to get to good position?

Watched the final quarter earlier and sorry to say but Murph was quite instrumental in some of our plays, yes he made a few errors but nothing that stood out to me - Weiters kicked it OOTF as did Doch.

Re: Post Game Permutation: AFL Rd 12: Carlton vs Fremantle

Reply #144 –
Quote from: Micky0 – on
Thoughts on our kicking into our F50?

Is it their defenders were so good and knew where to be? Or our forwards not working hard enough to get to good position?

Watched the final quarter earlier and sorry to say but Murph was quite instrumental in some of our plays, yes he made a few errors but nothing that stood out to me - Weiters kicked it OOTF as did Doch.
Conditions didnt help kicking into the forward 50...neither team could get any system and it was a war of attrition in terms of getting the ball forward anyway you could.
Both teams defenses were on top and no forward dominated although Taberner could probably say he did his job with three goals
Weitering wasnt bad IMO...Taberner got an iffy free and a crumbed snap that bounced his way but there was just the one goal where he beat Weitering in the square. Weitering does the odd iffy kick on the left especially when he tries to get cute with the ball but every backman makes at least one error most games.
@DJC...Whipping boys...Plowman was ok especially on Fyfe, read the ball well and was assisted by the conditions, didnt see a lot of Samo but didnt see his man either so job done. The Freo small forwards, Walters, Frederick and Schultz were non events.
Williamson was shaky but persisted, Simpson got felled by a Falcon but battled on, Docherty was steady and I gave him a vote, nothing spectacular about his game but no major errors either and in close games thats important for a defender.

Re: Post Game Permutation: AFL Rd 12: Carlton vs Fremantle

Reply #145 –
Just watched replay and Willo in particular. My initial reaction stands. He's building. This week he tackled well, including 2 x HTB sgainst Fyfe (Not sure many have that small win against their name 25 games in).

I don't believe he panicked either. To me panicked = Jason Tutt. It's more learning when to go, when to dispose. Decision making under heat in other words. His instinct is to run with ball in hand. That doesn't always come off resulting in poor DE. I think it was q4 where he used his evasive skills and strong kicking to find an important target at a crucial time. Another small win.
Coming together is the beginning.
Keeping together is progress.
Working together is success.
Henry Ford.

Re: Post Game Permutation: AFL Rd 12: Carlton vs Fremantle

Reply #146 –
Well the MRP are up to it's usual rubbish.

Fisher gets fined after Darcy and Brayshaw labelled Fisher's tackle as a chicken wing, Cottrell gets fined for careless conduct against Aish. Both incidents highlighted by the commentary crew.

Several Carlton players were dumped in sling like tackles by Freo players and not a single Freo player was cited! No a sound from Darcy, Brayshaw or Richo, no MRP action.

It's obvious the MRP is unable to isolate itself from media influence, so it is therefore biased or corrupt.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Post Game Permutation: AFL Rd 12: Carlton vs Fremantle

Reply #147 –
I believe we were the better side and deserved to win. Such is our want that we will make it as difficult as we possible can for ourselves.  :(

The Good:
Cottrell. Plus I really like that he has a dash of mongrel.
TDK. Some of his tap outs to advantage were deft. Although the opposition wasn't A grade the kid gave his all and showed considerable potential.
Backline. That group back there have saved our bacon on a number of occasions. BUT I still think SPS should be up the ground... maybe, just maybe, Polson will have improved enough to slot in down there... he has speed and attitude on his side. Fingers crossed.
E Curnow. Ever reliable and should be acknowledged for his consistent excellent efforts... though, Ed, please improve your DE.
Crippa. Moving nicely back into good form.
Walsh. Second year blues well and truly gone... and like Ed, improve your disposal kiddo.
Newnes. Ordinary game, great final kick. And people can stop whining about Gibbons being the one who should have taken the kick... he'd have kicked it too.
Teague. For stating clearly and strongly, again, that our expectation is to win... therefore, make finals. Love definitive public statement like that.

The Bad:
Commentary re Newnes goal after the siren. Especially Richo who said that who ever it was who barrelled over Doc after he'd taken his kick couldn't have slowed up/just part of his momentum. Have another look, Richo, Oh Head Of Immaculate Density... the player virtually stopped then pushed Doc in the chest - a free every day of the week.

The Confusing:
Murphy. When moved onto the ball he certainly did some good things, BUT, some of his efforts, for an experienced bloke, lacked authority and then a few disposals by foot had you pulling your hair out. However, some of his 'linking' was first rate. He sure has become a polarising character. The one thing about Murph that I personally dislike enormously, is that he seems to lack tenacity and passion for the contest... seems to always want to finesse, and that p1sses me off when so many other blokes/mids are throwing their bodies into the fray. He might occasionally do it, but it is NOT his default position - don't care what the reasons are, if you can't hurt for your mates then FO. If he does sign on for next year I hope he is informed that a guarantee of games is NOT automatic and at some stage he WILL have to make way for a young bloke.

The Ugly:
Our DE (Disposal Efficiency) is just about the worst in the league. We regularly have around a half a dozen blokes with a DE under 50%. Against the D1ckers we had 8 blokes with a DE under 50% FFS. That means that at any given time we have almost half the blokes on the field wasting half or more of their possessions. I looked back over a number of our games -- wins and losses -- and FMD it is a trend. So I randomly picked other sides to see their list and DE %s -- winners, losers, top of the ladder, bottom of the ladder -- and very few had any where near as many players with a deplorable DE comparable to ours. We clean up on this and look out world.

After watching the game a second time I really thought the umpires only had a few howlers, favouring/penalising each side... Crippa could easily have been pinged for dropping the ball in front of their goal when he was tackled and his attempted kick missed everything, that's just one example. Nothing near the level of last week's obscene umpiring exhibition.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: Post Game Permutation: AFL Rd 12: Carlton vs Fremantle

Reply #148 –
Quote from: Baggers – on

After watching the game a second time I really thought the umpires only had a few howlers, favouring/penalising each side... Crippa could easily have been pinged for dropping the ball in front of their goal when he was tackled and his attempted kick missed everything, that's just one example. Nothing near the level of last week's obscene umpiring exhibition.

Baggers I haven't watched the game again...yet...but IIRC:
1. Cripps threw the ball out and if I am not mistaken, a couple of possessions later resulted in the Cottrell goal. If not the Cottrell goal someone elses but it definitely preceeded one of our goals.
2. I thought Casboult pushed the Freo ruckman in the back, gained possession and snapped that goal.
IMO, these squared up the two howlers in the first qtr that resulted in the Taberner and Lobb goals.
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership

Re: Post Game Permutation: AFL Rd 12: Carlton vs Fremantle

Reply #149 –
What I don't get about the Murphy criticism at the moment is he's being doing the exact same stuff for 5+ years.

Are people just noticing it now?

Re. our disposal into the forward line - this is where we veer wildly from capable of destroying opponents to very easy to stop.

It happens not just week by week but quarter by quarter.

Opponents drop a couple loose players back, apply enough pressure through the midfield to force a quick kick and we're cooked. It is going to take a real leap in our mental toughness to change this. To just keep taking the opponents on all game every game, rather than bail out and go safe at the first sign of the opponents applying some pressure. - which is what is happening now.