Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 14: Carlton vs Collingwood

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Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 14: Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #135 – September 01, 2020, 01:40:24 pm

Quote from: WASurfer – on September 01, 2020, 01:29:41 pm

Keogh....I've posted it before and didn't want to torture the readers again.....but if you look at the 2014 Draft, that was the killer! An absolute disaster....blokes from that draft would now be in their prime years but not one of them is left at the club.

Hughes or Rogers
Either way they were both useless
As I pointed out in the other forum the lack of improvement in our future midfield is a concern
And yes SOS had to get rid of many at the end of 2015
But why replace spuds with spuds?
We were panced in between the arks yet again.
They had Sidebottom and Treloar both out

Elliott Daicos Phillips Noble Quaynor
Crisp and Maynard like Noble are essentially defenders but provided plenty of drive around the middle
Ed Curnow gets a pass
Setterfield got the ball but his impact is minor
It’s called depth in the middle
We don’t have it
The question is how long do you wait before guys turn the corner?

Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 14: Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #136 – September 01, 2020, 02:10:51 pm

smarter quicker team .the space that stephenson had and delivery was perfect and could of kicked 4 goals /why cant we do the same with eddie for example our coaches have to do better on match day

Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 14: Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #137 – September 01, 2020, 02:29:19 pm

Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on September 01, 2020, 11:51:37 am

Been an area thats been ignored and given we spent 800k on a 3rd tall forward I think a bit of money spent down back is fair enough. Appreciate we will probably be looking at Williams who will be around 800-900k but I think Saad is a decent player to pursue and spend a dollar or two on as well.

Terrible decision to pay that much for McGovern given his output and our needs in other areas. I wouldn't use that as a reason to justify over spending in other areas.

Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 14: Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #138 – September 01, 2020, 02:39:21 pm

Quote from: keogh – on September 01, 2020, 01:40:24 pm

Hughes or Rogers
Either way they were both useless
As I pointed out in the other forum the lack of improvement in our future midfield is a concern
And yes SOS had to get rid of many at the end of 2015
But why replace spuds with spuds?
We were panced in between the arks yet again.
They had Sidebottom and Treloar both out

Elliott Daicos Phillips Noble Quaynor
Crisp and Maynard like Noble are essentially defenders but provided plenty of drive around the middle
Ed Curnow gets a pass
Setterfield got the ball but his impact is minor
It’s called depth in the middle
We don’t have it
The question is how long do you wait before guys turn the corner?

And yet we played twice as well against them last year when nobody gave us a hope in hell.

But for some terrible umpiring decisions in the last 5 minutes of that game, it was ours.

It's all between our ears...

And that Cripps is wounded, or mind elsewhere, doesn't help.

Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 14: Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #139 – September 01, 2020, 03:08:56 pm

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2020/08/31/have-carltons-top-young-draft-picks-actually-improved/

2015

Weitering - Close to AA.   Leader.
McKay - playing the hardest position on the ground.   44 games in this bloke is super talented.   Need continuality.   The rest of the football community is wetting their pants over this guy.   Wouldn't trade him for the world.
Curno - Dynamic Footballer that could push into midfield.   Amazing talent and a great get at 12.
Cunningham - Has pace and is a nice kick.   Has the ability to break games open. Only played 34 games and needs more game time.   Don't like him trapped forward which he has been a lot this year out of need I am hoping.   Showed against Essendon what he can go.
Silvagni J - Good get late in the draft.   Works his back side off and applies a lot of defensive pressure.

2016

SPS - Starting to hit his sweet spot. While people are critical of his work in defense no-one has really got a hold of him.   Good in the contest with good skills we will be rewarded when he is moved up the ground.
Fisher - We know what this bloke can do.   Another that needs game time.   Injuries has hampered him a little.
Macreadie - For a bloke taken at 47 he has shown enough to suggest he can play. Injuries have set him back.
Polson - At pick 59 the picking are slim.   Has 4 games to show if he is up to it.
Williamson - Taken at pick 61.   Just a baby at 28 games.   Needs more game time to adjust to the pressure and unleash that left foot.   Body the real concern.
Kerr - Spec Tall.

2017

Dow - His debut season was great.   Struggled with 2nd year blues and has been injured for most of 2020.   Has put on a little bit of bulk and needs at least another pre-season or two.   You see the improvement in a guys like Setterfield and that comes with an improved tank. As a result he is able to get to more contests, can spread defensively, is not fatigued when he goes to dispose of the ball and as a result make better decisions.    Again only 41 games.   Must play as much as possible.
O'Brien - Outsider user of the ball.   Needs to work on his defensive side. Ideal replacement for Simpson.   Showed in the pre-season how good he is with ball in had.   Will get better as our insdie game gets better.
TDK - Oh boy.   The struggle to make sure he gets games.
Schumacher - Pick 70.   Nuff said.
Garlett - Gone.   Talented.   Lacked in other areas.

2018
(It's really too early to comment on any of these guys.   Way to early.)
Walsh - Gun
Stocker - who knows?
O'Dwyer - speculative pick unlikely to survive the cut.
Silvagni B - same as O'Dwyer?

Kano is a flog and of the highest order.   He is just click bait and each week he takes turns in crap canning someone.   There is no depth or any insight to his views.   Unfortunately this type of media is common in the AFL.

Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 14: Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #140 – September 01, 2020, 03:10:33 pm

Quote from: Shakin77 – on September 01, 2020, 02:29:19 pm

Terrible decision to pay that much for McGovern given his output and our needs in other areas. I wouldn't use that as a reason to justify over spending in other areas.

Reminds me of why we went after Warnock when we had Kruezer and Jacobs then recruited Hampson.

Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 14: Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #141 – September 01, 2020, 03:33:16 pm

Quote from: Shakin77 – on September 01, 2020, 02:29:19 pm

Terrible decision to pay that much for McGovern given his output and our needs in other areas. I wouldn't use that as a reason to justify over spending in other areas.

Backline has a few cracks wallpapered over with Weitering and Jones IMHO and our smaller defenders dont really defend.
I think a couple of quality small/mid backs who can defend/run the ball out well are the priority and where the money should be spent along with another quality mid who can help Cripps.

Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 14: Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #142 – September 01, 2020, 03:39:47 pm

Quote from: WASurfer – on September 01, 2020, 01:29:41 pm

Keogh....I've posted it before and didn't want to torture the readers again.....but if you look at the 2014 Draft, that was the killer! An absolute disaster....blokes from that draft would now be in their prime years but not one of them is left at the club.

Only Jones obtained by the PSD from memory. What a disaster those years were, everybody just glosses over it but it set us back years.

Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 14: Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #143 – September 01, 2020, 03:54:51 pm

Quote from: Shakin77 – on September 01, 2020, 03:08:56 pm

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2020/08/31/have-carltons-top-young-draft-picks-actually-improved/

2015

Weitering - Close to AA.   Leader. Agree
McKay - playing the hardest position on the ground.   44 games in this bloke is super talented.   Need continuality.   The rest of the football community is wetting their pants over this guy.   Wouldn't trade him for the world. Talented for sure
Curno - Dynamic Footballer that could push into midfield.   Amazing talent and a great get at 12.   Agree on talent but injuries remain a major issue and we need to prepare for the worst if he breaks down again
Cunningham - Has pace and is a nice kick.   Has the ability to break games open. Only played 34 games and needs more game time.   Don't like him trapped forward which he has been a lot this year out of need I am hoping.   Showed against Essendon what he can go.Can play but too inconsistent
Silvagni J - Good get late in the draft.   Works his back side off and applies a lot of defensive pressure.Agree

2016

SPS - Starting to hit his sweet spot. While people are critical of his work in defense no-one has really got a hold of him.   Good in the contest with good skills we will be rewarded when he is moved up the ground.Disagree, lazy contester, picks and chooses when to go and struggles when its physical
Fisher - We know what this bloke can do.   Another that needs game time.   Injuries has hampered him a little.Agree
Macreadie - For a bloke taken at 47 he has shown enough to suggest he can play. Injuries have set him back.Delist
Polson - At pick 59 the picking are slim.   Has 4 games to show if he is up to it. Delist
Williamson - Taken at pick 61.   Just a baby at 28 games.   Needs more game time to adjust to the pressure and unleash that left foot.   Body the real concern.Agree
Kerr - Spec Tall.Harshly done by IMO

2017

Dow - His debut season was great.   Struggled with 2nd year blues and has been injured for most of 2020.   Has put on a little bit of bulk and needs at least another pre-season or two.   You see the improvement in a guys like Setterfield and that comes with an improved tank. As a result he is able to get to more contests, can spread defensively, is not fatigued when he goes to dispose of the ball and as a result make better decisions.    Again only 41 games.   Must play as much as possible. Poor user at U18 level, poor decision maker at senior level, has pace and will attack a contest but 50/50 only with other young players coming through who kick the ball better
O'Brien - Outsider user of the ball.   Needs to work on his defensive side. Ideal replacement for Simpson.   Showed in the pre-season how good he is with ball in had.   Will get better as our insdie game gets better.Poor contested player and his kicking is over rated, at half back he would be a liability IMO so close to goal
TDK - Oh boy.   The struggle to make sure he gets games.Agree, great prospect
Schumacher - Pick 70.   Nuff said.Odd choice
Garlett - Gone.   Talented.   Lacked in other areas.Dud

2018
(It's really too early to comment on any of these guys.   Way to early.)
Walsh - GunAgree
Stocker - who knows?Has the talent
O'Dwyer - speculative pick unlikely to survive the cut.Ridiculous pick IMO
Silvagni B - same as O'Dwyer?Has size and can take a mark, unlike his brother though in attitude IMO and does he want it enough?

Kano is a flog and of the highest order.   He is just click bait and each week he takes turns in crap canning someone.   There is no depth or any insight to his views.   Unfortunately this type of media is common in the AFL.

Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 14: Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #144 – September 01, 2020, 04:04:18 pm

@ Shakin
What EB said.

Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 14: Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #145 – September 01, 2020, 04:29:11 pm

Quote from: Gointocarlton – on September 01, 2020, 04:04:18 pm

@ Shakin
What EB said.

That's fine. I am not suggesting that every player draft will be a star, but as a collective it's a handy bunch and if we can get a few thing right via free agency we are pretty well set.

I get the feeling SOS's legacy will come down to how well the midfield develops plus his inability to bring a Shiel or Coniglio in.

6 weeks ago Kano was banging on about Walsh. He is just a Muppet.

Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 14: Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #146 – September 01, 2020, 04:43:16 pm

GTC....traded a draft pick to the Dogs to get Liam Jones. The Dogs used that pick to snare Caleb Daniel. Daniel has been superb for them and we would've been kicking ourselves early but I think Jones has been pretty good down back in the last few seasons for us.

The rest of 2014 draft/trade period is stuff of nightmares!

Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 14: Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #147 – September 01, 2020, 04:49:59 pm

@ WAS
Surfie I think MM was instrumental in getting Jones iirc. A family friend, from memory.

Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 14: Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #148 – September 01, 2020, 05:51:45 pm

Quote from: cookie2 – on September 01, 2020, 04:49:59 pm

@ WAS
Surfie I think MM was instrumental in getting Jones iirc. A family friend, from memory.

Yes that's my recollection too. MM was also keen on Kristian Jasck (?sp) 😖

Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 14: Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #149 – September 01, 2020, 05:58:38 pm

Tuesday arvo calmness - well at least I hope that comes through the post!
I agree we may have lost it in selection - but then I look at this with calmness and think who else could we bring in?
At some point form has to be the key. Both Dow and Polson were showing form - it isn't anyone's fault the games they are playing in resemble little of the action in senior footy.
Further to this I am fascinated with Polson. When played as a fwd he displayed to me dear in a headlight symptoms. Would run fast, miss easy marks and kicking was an issue. The move to defence is a good move for him and the team - as we have a shortage here with no access to Stocker atm. So when I saw Polson take the ball and run out of defence early in the first qtr I felt this was what the coaches wanted - dare, pace, carry. They would know kicking is an issue but the other key points come first. Then my joy changed.
I noticed Polson look down field, then look behind to Simpson to handball backwards. At this point I had to pause as I simply can't determine from the vision if he looked back cos Simpson was screaming to him to do this - or if no fwd was leading to the space his kick could reach? It wouldn't surprise me to see down field vision of no one running to the space to warrant a lead as our fwds currently aren't the smartest bunch. Here is when I feel for Polson - his very first involvement looked good but ended poorly with a turn over - a 50 50 kick in hope, Well we all should know this isn't the first time in a very long time this has happened. Bloody hell our joint captain gave away our fist goal with the worse kick I have ever seen him do - talk about setting the tone. We are a confidence team and a good start has always been vital.
I'm pretty confident Polson spent solid time on the pine. Most likely dragged as Teague is displaying very little patience for youth anymore and their mistakes. Let's not forget this was one of the biggest criticisms of Ratten - wouldn't play or develop the young guys enough. Tended to stick to the core of senior players. I fear we are headed down this path again. We can't have the SOS injection of youth - and our Exec committee saying this is the re-build we needed. Then bye to SOS and Teague shows strong signs of not backing enough of the youth. For example...He brings in Honey v Freo. Wet rainy conditions. Not allowing to displaying his skill set. I felt his touch was very good considering - so why drop him? One match in the wet - give me a spell. We stuck with Cottrell who showed some very good signs up until needing a rest. Honey is explosive as is Philp. Pace is what we are screaming for. Play these 2 then. Give Eddie a rest for example. Or rotate him on the bench more - thus dropping a big guy. We are way too tall against any team.
With Dow he also is fascinating. We all know kicking is a real issue. Yet in the twos it's not as noticeable. My issue with him is a perceived lack of hunger for the contest. And a real fear to kick the ball. Many times I saw a lack of desire to tackle - and when he did Collingwood players easily brushed him off. My read of Teague is this would be the number 1 thing he wouldn't like. A lack of defensive pressure (hence O'Brien not playing imo).
If this can't be taught or injected in to these players, under Teague they simply won't get a game or will be de-listed.
It will be fascinating to see if they persist with Dow and Polson in an absolute must win match. this to me will say so much about our current coaching and selection crew. PS is Sav Rocca still the kicking coach? I recall 2 years a go Cripps nailing a high percentage of set shots and having a clear method to his pre kick routine. For a star like him I am amazed his routine this year (which CLEARLY) isn't working - hasn't been amended. If he is injured which affects his kicking - don't bloody put him fwd!! Calmness gone sorry...