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Topic: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide (Read 21816 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide

Reply #75 –
It   was very odd behaviour from Cripps but he's earned a repreive do to the fact he's carried the side for a while now or up until this year.  I can't understand how quickly some forget that and turn on him so easily. His mind cannot be completely focused with those issues with his partner. All he's done is shown that he's not superman but human.

I'll wait until next season before I even begin to judge him, he's earned it.

Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide

Reply #76 –
Quote from: bratblue – on
It  from was very odd behaviour from Cripps but he's earned a repreive do to the fact he's carried the side for a while now or up until this year.  I can't understand how quickly some forget that and turn on him so easily. His mind cannot be completely focused with those issues with his partner. All he's done is shown that he's not superman but human.

I'll wait until next season before I even begin to judge him, he's earned it.
This is precisely the problem with this club. We put players on a pedestal and they effectively can’t do no wrong.

Enough's enough! Cripps knows he’s regarded as the best player at the club and now is a shell of the player he once was because he knows he is above reproach. All he has to do is rock up and collect his pay cheque.

This has to stop. I’m all for lauding the players when they deserve it, but he and his mates don’t deserve any type of plaudits for their efforts this season. Praise when praise is due, not on past accomplishments.
Drugs are bad, mmmkay...

Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide

Reply #77 –
Quote from: shawny – on
Was very odd behaviour and one that tells you the mindset on the captain.
To do that when you 5 goals down really makes you wonder if he is the right man for the captaincy imo. Not just saying this off one game but reckon Weitering would be a good choice. Is a solid regular performer and a team first player.

Got caught following his man up the field for the entire first half which was why adelaide scored so easily.

It was a deliberate tactic to create separation leaving jones one out down back or a tandem with plowman and the opposition ruck who pushed forward hard knowing de koning didn't have the wheels to work up and down all game.

Weitering is better than that and the plan was to isolate the weak links.

It worked because we play see ball get ball too much.

"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson
 

Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide

Reply #78 –
I don't have a problem with Cripps celebrating a goal.

Firstly, they should celebrate goals as it builds confidence.

Secondly, it also breaks a stress cycle, not just for the goal-kicker but also for the team.

Finally, that highlight and a few more of them will force opposition clubs to treat Cripps differently. He'll become the master of his own destiny, that is exactly what we need, We do not need him being treated with disrespect and run-off freely, we need them crap scared to leave him unattended, and for him to have the confidence to kick those goals when or if they do leave him unattended!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide

Reply #79 –
Quote from: Baggers – on
Other clubs, all other clubs have had the same handicap, so that excuse or justification doesn't wash.

Time to take off the rose coloured glasses.

And to respond to another couple of your points, Tiggers came good because 1. Balme, 2. A creative 360 degree variant around heroes and Hardwick being removed from some areas and told to focus on coaching only. That session changed the culture, it was brilliant and the concept bound the blokes together in a short period of intense stuff and they've not looked back. Pussycats had a brutal 360 feedback course with Leading Teams and never looked back after that...

For us to toughen up there needs be a conscious exercise of strong confrontation / 360 feedback. Holy crap, we have a culture where players whine about a coach and get him the bullet - been doing it for years. Softness is ingrained, leave everything up to the superstars is ingrained. Relying on a 'tipping point' is living on 'someday isle.' We already have an ingrained tipping point... it come when opponents hit us with sustained pressure - we fold, we go to water, we crap ourselves.

We need to address these issues honestly and even brutally, that'll thin out a few non-hackers, and focus on deep cultural/psychological change. What do we stand for? What is our brand? How does the footy world see us? Chokers, that how we are viewed... big time chokers.

Holy mackerel did you see during the lockdown and no games the senior coach and one of the captains of the club spend a half hour on Zoom or Skype going through the playing list and taking the piss out of most players? I couldn't believe what I was watching.

Then, today (and there are plenty of other examples from the season) too many of our blokes are laughing and joking with opponents after an embarrassing loss. Seems the only people who hurt when we embarrass ourselves is the members and supporters. Too many players don't seem to give a crap... bar Walsh, do you see him after a loss - he hurts, hates losing, there are a few others but not enough. As I said, it is ingrained in our culture, losing... trying for a while... dropping our bundle when heat is applied... This will not change by expecting natural progression to take care of everything. It won't. Choking needs important and strong intervention.

There is nothing ruthless about our club. We're nice, we're talented, and we'll put up a fight... for a while, then... we'll choke.

You trying to tell me Hardwick's success was Hardwick's. It's nice to have help but he has seen that club come from a total rabble for 35 years to a great club. There is no argument. Took 7 years to properly change that culture. Spin doesn't change that. And I can assure you the moment things changed for Geelong is when Chappy said enough is enough. They were 2-3 going not working like they should and that moment changed everything. It was leadership from within.

As for COVID it highly favored clubs with an ingrained, well entrenched game plan, where things were automatic. We started with issues with the connect between the mids and forwards, unlike many other sides. not to mention we had issues with allowing clubs to score easily. With 8 people only training at one time there was no chance to sort any of those issues. Sorry, that's a fact. Every clubs situation is different. Not an excuse though for those horrible, lackadaisical start. That's part is pathetic. No excuse for five 6 to 8 goal starts during the first half. If you're a paid player the least you can do is to turn up to play when the ball is bounced.

The issue we have is to change our losing culture, get that want to win from the first moment. Coach can do so much, and he has improved us quite alot, 13-14 from 4-39. Done a great job there, similar to Ratten's first year. We fight every game out to the end. We missed out on a finals chance with a couple of chokes but i'm prepared to wear that in the short term as part of development. A change being in finals contention up to the penultimate round rather than talking no.1 picks. Acceptable for not but not acceptable, if you know what I mean. as we pissed a gold-plated chance to play finals down the drain. What we need is a few players from within to say enough is enough.  One thing psychology teaches you, and spent years studying that as my undergrad degree and partial post grad while getting my Exercise Physiology Masters, and 35 years a coach, is unless motivation is intrinsic you never never get the best from yourself no matter the talent. Extrinsic motivation will only get you so far but if you don't want it badly enough it won't happen to full potential no matter how many coaches, psychologist push it. They can go along way to dragging it out but in the end has to come from within. Cats did that in 2007. it's why cultures take such a long time to change.

Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide

Reply #80 –
Carlton, the club that keeps on giving ... to everyone except its supporters.

Want a fairytale end to your career?
Want to get your season back on track?
Unwanted by any other club but still need some pocket money?

Who ya’ gonna call?

Teague should make them watch the Cathy Freeman doco that aired last night.

Poor little flowers consistently wilt when a modicum of pressure is applied. Pressure? Pfft, they wouldn’t know what pressure is.
Keyboard warrior #24601

Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide

Reply #81 –
Quote from: IvanAwfulbigone – on
Carlton, the club that keeps on giving ... to everyone except its supporters.

Want a fairytale end to your career?
Want to get your season back on track?
Unwanted by any other club but still need some pocket money?

Who ya’ gonna call?

Teague should make them watch the Cathy Freeman doco that aired last night.

Poor little flowers consistently wilt when a modicum of pressure is applied. Pressure? Pfft, they wouldn’t know what pressure is.

Nailed it !!

Undoubtedly, that was the most embarrassing and insipid performance of the season. Playing the bottom team, we were expected to beat them, not go into the sheds at half-time 44-points down.

A goal-less opening quarter followed by just the one on the second, who the feck do we think we are ?? We didn't kick our second goal for the match until the 11-min mark of the third ............ what more does it take for the alarm bells to ring in the coaches box and amongst the senior players ?? 

I am absolutely pissed off with our "co-captains" too !!

Docherty has been 'average' at best this year and he was on track to register another sub-par game until he got injured. What totally blew my mind was his ambitious kick backwards over his head whilst standing on the boundary line. He seemed surprised that it went OOB, talk about a low percentage play and completely irresponsible behaviour. Can you imagine the roasting a newbie would have copped it he tried that shiit on ??

Cripps has been a non-event most of the season. His set-shot kicking for goal is appalling, and that is being polite. He missed a soda that we badly needed, in fact he missed it by a fair bit too. 

A little later, he bobbed up with some run, dash, baulks and the like and nailed a ripper goal.  Thing is, he burnt two team-mates in the process, thank feck he kicked accurately (maybe it was a fluke).

However, what galled me the most was his actions straight after kicking that goal. To put this into some perspective, he had done ziltch, nada, jacks!t up until that goal. He nails that one for his highlight reel and instead of running straight back to the centre for the next bounce and fire up his team-mates (like a good leader would do), he runs to towards the boundary line and does a "how good am I" pose for the sycophant adoring Carlton fans.

Sorry, that is not what I want to see from our captain, I'm sick to freakin' death of seeing Carlton players 'show-boating' after doing something good. We know it was good, we saw you do it, we don't need the theatrics and grandstanding.

We want to see the team win, not a handful of individual highlights. This typifies the mindset amongst the players, its all about them, not the team.  

Sadly, we are a long way from where we want to be because we are hedging our bets on a number of players who are VFL standard at best. Time to do some ruthless trades and bring in some mongrels and toe-cutters !!  
"The Other Teams Can Rot In Hell"

Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide

Reply #82 –
Quote from: LordLucifer – on
Docherty has been 'average' at best this year and he was on track to register another sub-par game until he got injured. What totally blew my mind was his ambitious kick backwards over his head whilst standing on the boundary line. He seemed surprised that it went OOB, talk about a low percentage play and completely irresponsible behaviour. 
Sorry, but I think this misses the mark.

I think that comment is a confusion of what a player can do, what fans would like them to do like the old days and what they must do under the current rule implementation, it is a situation caused by poor AFL Management not the players.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide

Reply #83 –
Been saying it on these forums for a couple of years.....until we draft/trade in players who can actually kick properly, we're destined for the lower regions of the ladder for a few more years. I doubt you'd find anyone you would say is "elite" with ball in hand on our list. That first 15 minutes yesterday was as bad as it's been....against the bottom side. When i saw that Walker and Talia were outs for them, I thought yep, this is one where we can actually dominate and win by a bit of a margin....maybe the players and coaches went into it with the same mindset?

Absolutely p#ss poor skills and footy smarts again. During the game a graphic was put up about consecutive goals conceded by us in each game this year and it made for scary reading...in fact it's been a blight on Teague's coaching tenure to date IMO.

Read this morning that Papley has committed to Sydney so maybe time to put a line through that one. If we can't trade in one or two very, very good midfielders with elite kicking skills, then we're up against it. Use our first round draft picks (this year and next if needed) and chase some Free Agents like Williams from GWS.

And don't get me started on McGovern....got a few late possessions but when the heat was on in that first quarter he was as he has been the last few weeks, a non-entity. If any club is stupid enough to be prepared to take him on, then we should do that deal.

Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide

Reply #84 –
It's laj's fault. He started talking about 90 point margins to overtake Melbourne right before the game which got me thinking about it and I'm a massive jinx.
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide

Reply #85 –
Quote from: LordLucifer – on
However, what galled me the most was his actions straight after kicking that goal. To put this into some perspective, he had done ziltch, nada, jacks!t up until that goal. He nails that one for his highlight reel and instead of running straight back to the centre for the next bounce and fire up his team-mates (like a good leader would do), he runs to towards the boundary line and does a "how good am I" pose for the sycophant adoring Carlton fans.

Sorry, that is not what I want to see from our captain, I'm sick to freakin' death of seeing Carlton players 'show-boating' after doing something good. We know it was good, we saw you do it, we don't need the theatrics and grandstanding.

It was just weird. That's the sort of celebration you do when you seal the game not when you have been getting smashed and just missed a sitter from 30 metres out.

2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide

Reply #86 –
Winners win because they win, losers lose because they lose. Carlton brought Barassi over to instill a winning culture into the Blues in the 1960's. This culture prevailed for three decades as Carlton became the League's power house. Elliot and his cronies destroyed the culture by instilling the belief that the only way you can win is by cheating. (Essendon followed that lead by instilling the belief that you can only win by being drug cheats.) We have addressed the cheating side of the cultural issues but we have yet to address the winning side of the is equation. We have got our administration right whereby we are financial viable and profitable even with a team producing crap results on field. We have built a squad that is young and talented with enormous potential, but we have yet to instill the desire to win. It is easy to have heroic defeats and the occasional come from behind incredible victories. It is hard to turn up week in week out and play to win. While it was great that Simpson and Murphy chaired off Gibbs at the end of the game, it would have better if they chaired him off after we had beaten Adelaide. I think Teague was a bit frustrated by this.
Back in the late 80's, a guy named Ian Herman kicked four goals in his first or second game for Carlton, he was dropped the following to allow a named player a game. We subsequently lost the next match. I always wondered about the message that was sent whereby it didn't matter how well you played, Carlton was always going to play the name players. That was the start of the drift in my book. It is the same with Cottrell. He takes the big mark, kicks the winning goal and doesn't play the next week. I understand he was probably starting to tire due to the work load, but what is the message we are sending to the playing group. Winning the game isn't important. Once again we played the name player, Docherty, with the dodgy leg who doesn't last out a quarter.
There is nothing wrong with our administration, there is nothing wrong with the playing list and there is nothing wrong with the coaching, what is wrong is whether the culture is focused on winning.

Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide

Reply #87 –
our game plan is F...k.n WRONG and the coaches have to take responsibility,we have lost games in the same manner for years.I would like to know how every week our opposition forward line has so much space and 1v1 contest ,room to lead into and now compare it to our forward line .

Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide

Reply #88 –
You can’t knock Cripps for enjoying an amazing feat - he is the first that hits the deck and swears when we lose games. He does care. He is allowed to be happy and show that when he’s solely created something. He is not dumb, he would’ve been livid with himself about missing that set shot.  He is the least of our problems.

Agree re Cottrell. I would’ve much prefer him or give a youngster like Dow Honey whoever, another go, rather than that pisstaker McGovern. 

Re: Post Game Pandemonium!: AFL 2020 Rd 17: Carlton vs Adelaide

Reply #89 –
Quote from: pew2 – on
our game plan is F...k.n WRONG and the coaches have to take responsibility,we have lost games in the same manner for years.I would like to know how every week our opposition forward line has so much space and 1v1 contest ,room to lead into and now compare it to our forward line .
yep.
Finals, then 4 in a row!