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Re: Post Game passion: AFL 2021 Rd 6: Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #135 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on
Our fans need to do their bit too.  Last two home matches attended and you would struggle to see a decent crowd.

I think attendances are all over the place this year. Consider Saturday night, a feature match over the weekend,  Richmond 100,000+ members, Melbourne on a roll.  56,000 turn up. That seems unders for a game that had an 85,000 capacity.

Re: Post Game passion: AFL 2021 Rd 6: Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #136 –
Quote from: townsendcalling – on
I think attendances are all over the place this year. Consider Saturday night, a feature match over the weekend,  Richmond 100,000+ members, Melbourne on a roll.  56,000 turn up. That seems unders for a game that had an 85,000 capacity.

Id agree except we've been like this for a while.

The ticketing isn't making life easy either.  Most people aren't organised enough to book in advance and you can't choose where you sit.  Two massive limitations when you can watch on TV.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Post Game passion: AFL 2021 Rd 6: Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #137 –
I still think it's spread over too many days now, it's leaving people with AFL overload and eventually it affects all games.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Post Game passion: AFL 2021 Rd 6: Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #138 –
It's too hard to get tickets. I'm an AFL member but couldn't get level 1 seats which are for free so I had to either sit on level 3 or pay over $100 for my family to go on the weekend.
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: Post Game passion: AFL 2021 Rd 6: Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #139 –
I couldn't get level 1 seats for the Collingwood game so in the end I chose not to go.
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: Post Game passion: AFL 2021 Rd 6: Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #140 –
Yes, it's barely applicable for families now, the cost is too high.

In a few years it'll be like EPL, with hardly anyone younger than a teenager to be seen in the stadium.

But this year, since last year, even my friends who are MCC members are not going to many games if any, yet we've been to several suburban games. I could tell this was going to be a trend a year or two back, lots of my mates can't stand how orchestrated the live game has become, and you'd think this season with so many goals being kicked you now have to stop and wait for the broadcaster to give the all clear every 2 or 3 minutes.

Now the broadcasters and coaches are complaining the quarters are going too long, but 10 out of the 35 minutes is waiting for the broadcaster's Ad break to finish!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Post Game passion: AFL 2021 Rd 6: Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #141 –
Just another one of those games where you can take away some positives but just be sick and tired of the same old negatives.

How many games have been lost under Teague on the back of one absolutely sh#thouse quarter of footy? It's just hard to fathom that we can come out and play with the sort of intent and endeavour we did in the first quarter and then just go completely missing in the second?

I'm not sure if we have a skills coach but if we do, he should be looking for another job? Every week it's the same thing....we continue to make the easy look impossible. Opposition teams score heavily from shocking turnovers and basic skill execution errors.

If not for Walsh and Jones and maybe Harry, that would've been a slaughter. Hard to criticise Harry with 6 goals but it's heart in the mouth stuff every time. Even his around the corner snaps travelled barely 40m and when it's a straight drop punt....he's less than a 50/50 chance.

The delivery into the forward line at times is laughable. The number of times we kick it straight to an opponent...or sit it on a team mate's head...or hospital handpass to a bloke standing still with an opponent right on him.

It's like shooting Bambi but I think Eddie's time is up and he's probably gone on a year too long. Will the club be brave enough to drop him or will he just be "rested"?

Docherty still looks a shadow of the AA player he was and is regularly making shocking mistakes, dropping marks.

We can criticise Levi but with no other ruck or key forward options at the moment, he simply has to play. Similarly, hard to criticise Pitto either....cracks in every week. He was recruited primarily as a back up ruckman to Kreuzer and TDK as he developed...but has been the number 1 ruckman basically since round 2 last year. The lack of planning in terms of a long term ruck option is appalling.

Williams' disposal has been terrible...and that was one of his strong points with GWS. Are we simply just masters at turning good players into ordinary players with poor skills?

On the positive side...Walsh is simply incredible. He doesn't stop gut running from the opening bounce and for a kid in only the beginning of his third season, it's inevitable that AA selection isn't too far off.

Re: Post Game passion: AFL 2021 Rd 6: Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #142 –
https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-news-2021-carlton-first-crack-brisbane-lions-david-teague-effort-defensive-structure-vision-video/news-story/0b05b102f406785e98c1b49d5f328c5c

There's a few takeaways from this clip, but my personal favourite ? After complaining about the Byzantine complexity of Bolton's game plan messing with the players' heads, Teague was praised for simplifying things. Now, apparently playing 1on1 (at least in defence) is no longer acceptable because it's not "2021 football." HA!

St Kilda great Leigh Montagna expanded on King’s points, explaining how it was telling none of their defenders barked instructions like Melbourne players did against the Tigers, as well as the one-on-one nature of their style.

“That system behind the ball is not modern football. They are still playing one-on-one, as soon as one player, that was Murphy, who doesn’t have their man, the whole defensive system falls apart,” he added.

“If you think about how Richmond, Melbourne, the Western Bulldogs, West Coast. All the good teams have a system and they work together and roll around. Carlton play 1v1, they all follow their man and once one is free they end up being checkers and it goes over the top. That’s why they are being scored against so easily.

Re: Post Game passion: AFL 2021 Rd 6: Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #143 –
My 2 c worth is as follows
I've watched Carlton training over the last few years...pre Covid and since

Everything is at cruise control...nice running patters and most kicks hit targets...there is zero match simulation and pressure on kicks and tackles..no wonder we melt under full match conditions

Goal kicking practice a joke...sit there with 20 footys and kick away...no man on the mark or do a quick  20m sprint and have heart rate up when shooting ..like match day..what a joke

And of course can't have too many shots like Dunstall and Lockett did after training did due to sports management on loads

I heard Jack Riewoldt sneaks off to the local park with a couple of footys and a mate and gets in xtras...

No wonder he's the sharpest converter current in AFL as a  FF

Re: Post Game passion: AFL 2021 Rd 6: Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #144 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-news-2021-carlton-first-crack-brisbane-lions-david-teague-effort-defensive-structure-vision-video/news-story/0b05b102f406785e98c1b49d5f328c5c

There's a few takeaways from this clip, but my personal favourite ? After complaining about the Byzantine complexity of Bolton's game plan messing with the players' heads, Teague was praised for simplifying things. Now, apparently playing 1on1 (at least in defence) is no longer acceptable because it's not "2021 football." HA!

St Kilda great Leigh Montagna expanded on King’s points, explaining how it was telling none of their defenders barked instructions like Melbourne players did against the Tigers, as well as the one-on-one nature of their style.

“That system behind the ball is not modern football. They are still playing one-on-one, as soon as one player, that was Murphy, who doesn’t have their man, the whole defensive system falls apart,” he added.

“If you think about how Richmond, Melbourne, the Western Bulldogs, West Coast. All the good teams have a system and they work together and roll around. Carlton play 1v1, they all follow their man and once one is free they end up being checkers and it goes over the top. That’s why they are being scored against so easily.

I've got no doubt that we have issues running both ways and most of what was said was spot on.

But.....

On both those clips....we had the ball....and we couldn't hit a teammate. The turnover created the issue. That issue can be papered over by gut running the other way, and ideally you fix both. However, first and foremost we need to make sure we hit our targets.

You don't need to defend if you constantly have the ball and can find a teammate.

So my biggest issue, and i called Cripps out for it last week, is finding a teammate rather than bombing long to the opposition. Give off the handball to a bloke in a better position and/or with better kicking skills.

We are winning the I50's but losing the game.....because we can't hit a target and kick it through the big ones.
Train it, train it, train it.

Wins will come off the back of it.

Re: Post Game passion: AFL 2021 Rd 6: Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #145 –
Quote from: Gags1960 – on
My 2 c worth is as follows
I've watched Carlton training over the last few years...pre Covid and since

Everything is at cruise control...nice running patters and most kicks hit targets...there is zero match simulation and pressure on kicks and tackles..no wonder we melt under full match conditions

Goal kicking practice a joke...sit there with 20 footys and kick away...no man on the mark or do a quick  20m sprint and have heart rate up when shooting ..like match day..what a joke

And of course can't have too many shots like Dunstall and Lockett did after training did due to sports management on loads

I heard Jack Riewoldt sneaks off to the local park with a couple of footys and a mate and gets in xtras...

No wonder he's the sharpest converter current in AFL as a  FF


He's not the only bloke to do that.

I think Fev, and maybe Lloydy used to do it too.
Definitely a few others.

That should speak volumes to the club. Players are requiring training that the club can not or will not give them. Perhaps you should rethink your training??

Re: Post Game passion: AFL 2021 Rd 6: Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #146 –
https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/shock-treatment-time-for-a-big-name-blue-to-fall-says-rhys-jones-20210426-p57mba.html

John Pierik article in The Age, published about 4pm this arvo.

Carlton great David Rhys-Jones has called on the Blues to make a big-name statement at selection in a bid to “shock” the struggling side into gear ahead of Sunday’s key clash against arch-rival Essendon.

Rhys-Jones, the 1987 Norm Smith medallist, said veterans Marc Murphy, Eddie Betts and Levi Casboult should face the axe and allow youngsters to be given an extended run in a side which has slumped to 2-4 and faces a defining month against the Bombers, Western Bulldogs and Melbourne.

Marc Murphy’s defensive work wasn’t always as sharp as it should have been on the weekend.
“Some hard decisions have to be made at the selection table. At times, it can shock the players into doing something,” Rhys-Jones said on Monday.

“I don’t like naming players that should be dropped, it’s unfair on the group, on those players in particular, but the guys that I have mentioned are over that 30-year-age bracket and they are not producing. That’s what you have to start looking at – [not] keeping them in the team, and turning over 21 and 22-year-olds. How would they feel week in, week out, knowing if they don’t have a great game, they are straight out, whereas other blokes are getting a continuous run with poor form.

“We haven’t been blown out of the water but it’s just the mistakes, missed goals. We have older blokes in there that are not producing – you look at Murphy, Betts and Casboult as the three that stand out, aren’t they?”
Betts, 34, finished with 0.4 in an 18-point loss to the Brisbane Lions on Saturday, including missing back-to-back shots early in the third term, later prompting coach David Teague to say the 335-game veteran wasn’t alone in lacking confidence. He has only two goals in four matches and is part of the problem Teague lamented when he said the Blues were not winning enough ground ball inside attacking 50 and capitalising on their work up the ground.

Eddie Betts is tackled by Dayne Zorko of the Lions on Saturday.Credit:Getty Images
“He is missing goals that were his bread and butter. That’s what happens when a bit older too – you are not quite there,” Rhys-Jones said.

Murphy, having struggled in a new half-forward role, was used on a wing and at stoppages on Saturday. The 33-year-old, nine matches shy of 300, had 19 touches (averaging 15.5) and was far from the worst Blue but his defensive work wasn’t always as sharp as it should have been.

Key tall Casboult, 31, was goalless (he has four in six matches), had only eight disposals and again failed to take a mark against the Lions, as happened in round 18 last year. His frustration was obvious when he kneed Ryan Lester in the second term and was later charged by the match review officer.

While full-forward Harry McKay is second (22 goals) in the Coleman Medal race and is emerging as a star, Rhys-Jones said Will Setterfield, who had 25 touches in the VFL, Paddy Dow, with 20 in the VFL, and Matthew Kennedy, the unused AFL substitute on Saturday, were among those who needed more time in the seniors to see if they could become consistent performers. Setterfield, Kennedy, Lochie O’Brien, Matthew Cottrell, Josh Honey and Matthew Owies are among a young group off contract this season, while Dow is signed until the end of 2022.
“The same players get dropped every week. That’s the sad reality of what has happened over the last few years,” Rhys-Jones, the unofficial president of the Blues’ past players association, said.

“Some of these [are] what you would call fringe-type players, they are not getting a run at it. Their arse is on the line every week ... I thought last week was the perfect occasion to make a statement.”

Rhys-Jones said Teague’s decision to shift Sam Petrevski-Seton from half-back, where he had not been providing enough drive, to half-forward was welcomed.

“He looked a bit more dangerous but he ended up back there [in defence] towards the end of the game,” he said.
Premiership coach John Worsfold has begun as an official mentor for Teague and his assistants, coming as Essendon great Matthew Lloyd questioned on Monday whether the Blues would finish in the bottom six, while former North Melbourne premiership player David King labelled the Blues’ man-on-man defence as “horrible”.
“It looks dated. It doesn’t look like the modern plan. It doesn’t look like a team defence, it’s a back six. That’s not 2021 football,” King said on SEN.

The Blues have conceded an average of 102.5 points in their four losses – the fourth most of any side with at least two defeats.

Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17
 

Re: Post Game passion: AFL 2021 Rd 6: Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #147 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
I've got no doubt that we have issues running both ways and most of what was said was spot on.

But.....

On both those clips....we had the ball....and we couldn't hit a teammate. The turnover created the issue. That issue can be papered over by gut running the other way, and ideally you fix both. However, first and foremost we need to make sure we hit our targets.

You don't need to defend if you constantly have the ball and can find a teammate.

So my biggest issue, and i called Cripps out for it last week, is finding a teammate rather than bombing long to the opposition. Give off the handball to a bloke in a better position and/or with better kicking skills.

We are winning the I50's but losing the game.....because we can't hit a target and kick it through the big ones.
Train it, train it, train it.

Wins will come off the back of it.
Yes, it's patently obvious our problem is using the football, it's hard to see how anyone can claim otherwise and keep a straight face!

Last weekend, at one stage of the replay you see a Carlton player with the ball in the midfield, I think it may have been Curnow, Doc or sMurph. Inside F50 directly behind the umpire standing beyond the mark is a 15m blob of clear space 35m out from goal ringed by three Carlton players, all the opposition are on the outside of this ring. We held and held the ball, then kicked it 40m over the back of the clear space to Betts who is one out against two opponents with a wall of opposition between Betts and the nearest team-mate. All we had to do was drop the ball in the space and have any one of three Carlton players run onto it!

This is not the first time I've seen us do this, it isn't a player problem, it's a coaching problem, but which coach?

Time and time again, you'll see several Carlton players guarding a zone within our F50, a zone that we seemingly can't kick into. It's like we have no idea how to be forwards, how to block and check opponents working together to create a mark and kick inside F50 for goal.

Good teams kick to that space, we kick to the players around it.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Post Game passion: AFL 2021 Rd 6: Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #148 –
My issue is with the stated problem and the stated solution. Today, the problem is black, therefore the solution is white. Next week, the problem is white, therefore the solution must be black.

Malthouse is too old, Bolton / Teague too young and inexperienced. Malthouse is too grumpy and unpleasant, Teague is too nice. bolton's game plan is too complex, Teague's is too simple.

Whether we go wth black or white, it never works.

Which simply proves, yet again, as Chomsky said, outside of a few very small areas of knowledge, nobody knows much about anything.

Re: Post Game passion: AFL 2021 Rd 6: Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #149 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
My issue is with the stated problem and the stated solution. Today, the problem is black, therefore the solution is white. Next week, the problem is white, therefore the solution must be black.

Malthouse is too old, Bolton / Teague too young and inexperienced. Malthouse is too grumpy and unpleasant, Teague is too nice. bolton's game plan is too complex, Teague's is too simple.

Whether we go wth black or white, it never works.

Which simply proves, yet again, as Chomsky said, outside of a few very small areas of knowledge, nobody knows much about anything.
Maybe the playing list then....its hard to compare given circumstances the way lists were built but both us and GWS are not fairing well at the minute and both had the same builder.