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Topic: Post Game passion: AFL 2021 Rd 6: Carlton vs Brisbane (Read 24956 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: Post Game passion: AFL 2021 Rd 6: Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #150 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Maybe the playing list then....its hard to compare given circumstances the way lists were built but both us and GWS are not fairing well at the minute and both had the same builder.

Maybe, but the GWS playing list has been picked apart for years. Way more exits than blokes coming in. I don't think I've heard many FA's nominate GWS as their preferred destination. And I don't mean oldies on their last legs. The job GWS have to build a successful club and culture is pretty difficult IMO.

I also have mixed feelings about SOS, but we're always riding the blame merry-go-round, because if you rate SOS, it must be development, or the coach, or Russell or..........................

Re: Post Game passion: AFL 2021 Rd 6: Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #151 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
My issue is with the stated problem and the stated solution. Today, the problem is black, therefore the solution is white. Next week, the problem is white, therefore the solution must be black.

Malthouse is too old, Bolton / Teague too young and inexperienced. Malthouse is too grumpy and unpleasant, Teague is too nice. bolton's game plan is too complex, Teague's is too simple.

Whether we go wth black or white, it never works.

Which simply proves, yet again, as Chomsky said, outside of a few very small areas of knowledge, nobody knows much about anything.

I don't know who you've been listening too, but its been pretty clear and pretty consistently the fact we can't find a teammate and can't chase.

Fix that and there won't be any issues.

Re: Post Game passion: AFL 2021 Rd 6: Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #152 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
Maybe, but the GWS playing list has been picked apart for years. Way more exits than blokes coming in. I don't think I've heard many FA's nominate GWS as their preferred destination. And I don't mean oldies on their last legs. The job GWS have to build a successful club and culture is pretty difficult IMO.

I also have mixed feelings about SOS, but we're always riding the blame merry-go-round, because if you rate SOS, it must be development, or the coach, or Russell or..........................

You can identify the same deficiencies in both teams...debatable leadership, lack of physicality and both lists constantly have injured players....bad luck maybe or just brittle players to start with?
GWS have those skills we crave and yes they have been a supermarket for players for other clubs but how many of those players have really kicked on, smacked it out of the park at other clubs and propelled those teams to greater glory...maybe Jack Steele.
How many GWS players are there on the recent premiership winners lists?..Townsend at the Tigers.....
Richmond, Hawthorn, Bulldogs, West Coast havent really over done the GWS theme have they?
 

Re: Post Game passion: AFL 2021 Rd 6: Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #153 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
....................................................... how many of those players have really kicked on, smacked it out of the park at other clubs and propelled those teams to greater glory...maybe Jack Steele.
How many GWS players are there on the recent premiership winners lists?..Townsend at the Tigers.....
Richmond, Hawthorn, Bulldogs, West Coast havent really over done the GWS theme have they?

We can quibble about the bar you have set, which sounds like it would eliminate 90% of traded players from all clubs, but I would argue that in addition to Steele, Josh Bruce, Devon Smith, Hoskin-Elliott, Treloar, Dylan Shiel, Tomlinson (especially this season), and probably Sam Frost have all added positively to their later clubs. Treloar and Steele are probably the pick of the bunch IMO.

Re: Post Game passion: AFL 2021 Rd 6: Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #154 –
Quote from: madbluboy – on
It's too hard to get tickets. I'm an AFL member but couldn't get level 1 seats which are for free so I had to either sit on level 3 or pay over $100 for my family to go on the weekend.
Thats garbage given all the money you shell out. What I want to know is why can I used me reserved seats which I have paid a bomb for. It makes no sense to me, I have a seat let me bloody use it.
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership

Re: Post Game passion: AFL 2021 Rd 6: Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #155 –
And I forgot Taylor Adams.

Re: Post Game passion: AFL 2021 Rd 6: Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #156 –
Quote from: Gointocarlton – on
Thats garbage given all the money you shell out. What I want to know is why can I used me reserved seats which I have paid a bomb for. It makes no sense to me, I have a seat let me bloody use it.

If people were allowed to sit in their own reserved seat it would make contact tracing too easy. We can't have that.
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: Post Game passion: AFL 2021 Rd 6: Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #159 –
Quote from: Gags1960 – on
My 2 c worth is as follows
I've watched Carlton training over the last few years...pre Covid and since

Everything is at cruise control...nice running patters and most kicks hit targets...there is zero match simulation and pressure on kicks and tackles..no wonder we melt under full match conditions

Goal kicking practice a joke...sit there with 20 footys and kick away...no man on the mark or do a quick  20m sprint and have heart rate up when shooting ..like match day..what a joke

Excellent post @Gags1960 .. precisely what sh1ts me to death.  Lousy coaching

Re: Post Game passion: AFL 2021 Rd 6: Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #160 –
Quote from: madbluboy – on
https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-news-2021-carlton-first-crack-brisbane-lions-david-teague-effort-defensive-structure-vision-video/news-story/0b05b102f406785e98c1b49d5f328c5c



Hard to argue with that when there's vision.
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership

Re: Post Game passion: AFL 2021 Rd 6: Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #161 –
Quote from: Gointocarlton – on
Hard to argue with that when there's vision.
I think it pays to look at the vision more and listen less.

If you go back and watch those clips, especially the first 2 about Plowman and Wing, you find the problem is our midfield being sucked forward.

In the Plowman case pause at the 27s mark and look at the left wing logo, you see three Carlton mids trailing behind the play guarding one opponent, as the play progresses they all get sucked forward and leave opposition numbers goal side behind them.

In the Wing clip, pause at 1:01s the Wing whoever has trailed his opponent into F50, the four opposition on the wing come out of the midfield left guarded by only two Carlton players.

In both cases, we have numbers around the football and lose the contest, so much for our super stoppage types. King's questioning defence is correct, but he's been lazy in the analysis.

The reason the King analysis is so soft and meaningless is simply this, if those players he criticises do the exact opposite, if they do exactly what he asked them to do, then the opponent they do not chase can come out the other side of the contest with the football, King will make the very same claims about the Carlton players not guarding opponents. King will say something like, "Nobody wanted to go with them!"

King is describing a symptom, not the cause.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Post Game passion: AFL 2021 Rd 6: Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #162 –
Nothing new, everyone knows we don't man  up well and our defense chases kicks and leaves leaves single players stranded on multiple opponents or a midget defender trying to stop a tall forward.
Players like Rich know if they work hard enough and run forward it's picnic time because his man won't run after him and will selfishly just hope the ball rebounds back so he can get an easy kick.
Probably the easiest gig is playing on Cripps, after the stoppage,tough to stop him getting the ball initially but if you can prevent that and then run hard enough you are going to get some easy ball, especially if Cripps has turned it over by foot and its coming back quickly you are going to be free to get that rebound kick and won't have an opponent.
Players standing flat footed guarding grass on the switch across the ground.... Murphy. SPS just to name a few who give up quickly and won't chase in that situation.
Letting the small forward get goalside for the easy cherry over the back is another favourite and we added let the newbie light weight kid out position our defenders initially and dance around feeble tackling to kick an easy goal on the square ie Robertson, how easy was that?
Lazy brain dead football by players on big bucks who don't want to do the basics because it's too hard. Supporters are past yelling and screaming, they are laughing like when Stocker kicked an own goal, even the player laughed its so pitiful..

Re: Post Game passion: AFL 2021 Rd 6: Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #163 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Players standing flat footed guarding grass on the switch across the ground.... Murphy. SPS just to name a few who give up quickly and won't chase in that situation.
Sorry @ElwoodBlues1‍ but critics can't have it both ways.

King is basically criticising the same players for running with an opponent, so it can't be that they don't chase, he wants them to stand their ground and mark a space/zone. If they do that then you or he will say they don't chase. It's a no win situation for them in that circumstance.

The real problem is that we consistently have three players from our midfield not guarding anybody, not picking up loose players, not holding a zone and not involved in the play. They run one way, and even then only run half the time!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Post Game passion: AFL 2021 Rd 6: Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #164 –
Quote from: LP – on
Sorry @ElwoodBlues1‍ but critics can't have it both ways.

King is basically criticising the same players for running with an opponent, so it can't be that they don't chase, he wants them to stand their ground and mark a space/zone. If they do that then you or he will say they don't chase. It's a no win situation for them in that circumstance.

The real problem is that we consistently have three players from our midfield not guarding anybody, not picking up loose players, not holding a zone and not involved in the play. They run one way, and even then only run half the time!
My gripe is non chasing, spectating and leaving the teammates hung out dry.
I don't want them guarding grass like what happened with Bolton... You still have to chase and pressure even with little hope of success sometimes.. See Hooker vs Buddy..
Our blokes don't see it that way, often they just slow up and give it away..