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Topic: Teague - Selecting Battlers over talent. (Read 17788 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: Teague - Selecting Battlers over talent.

Reply #15 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on
Im not sure there were many other options on hand.  Last few weeks in the VFL our tallest players forward have been 184cm until De koning returned.  Playing him first up against a side sitting 8-0 was probably not going to end well, particularly if we needed the run to try and get on top via other means.

It all changes if we got torrential rain.  We didnt.  In that equation though, he picked the winning strategy.  THAT is the point.

I'm sorry Thry but picking a team in the hope of torrential rain is fanciful.  We could have had Noah's flood and May and Lever would still have knocked up getting intercept possessions.

Yes, injuries have reduced our taller options but Kennedy is 188cm, Carroll is 187cm, and Honey is 184cm.  Even Williamson, at 190cm, could have played as a half forward and forced a match up with a tall defender.
"Negative waves are not helpful. Try saying something righteous and hopeful instead." Oddball

Re: Teague - Selecting Battlers over talent.

Reply #16 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
I'm with Krud, the reason why Cottrell, Gibbons, Parks, Newnes, Owies etc have got games is because those highly rated other players like SPS, Setterfield, Obrien, Dow, Cuningham and Williamson(yes later pick I know) have been putrid, both in skill, in effort and sticking their gonads into places where they might get hurt.
Teague cant trust those higher rated players to turn up and play with any intent or passion......its that simple.

and this is what's wrong with selection. I'm sure if you put anybody who a Carlton member out there they would have passion, but passion doesn't win you game. Ball control and skill does. Most of the season we've had Newnes on one wing and Cotrell on the other, neither gives you more than 12-15 touches a game, sure Cottrell runs around all game long, but is tirelessly predictable as he runs in straight lines. How can we win with inept wings, when the game has progress into a play on game and a quality wing is very important.

We have O'Brien who has proven that he is a two way runner, and a much better kick than Cottrell, but when he gets a low disposal game, he's dropped, in fact he's played two game over the past two seasons, hardly a fair go for a former pick 10 to prove his worth.

That being said his papers may be stamped, but if that's the case why didn't we trade O'Brien last season when Collingwood came knocking for him?

I like Owies and think he has something, but Gibbons doesn't play with passion and his games this season have been poor, Parks is not an AFL Level player yet and possibly won't ever be, but because he has passion he gets a game? No wonder we're at the bottom of the ladder again.

Re: Teague - Selecting Battlers over talent.

Reply #17 –
Quote from: Raydan – on
That being said his papers may be stamped, but if that's the case why didn't we trade O'Brien last season when Collingwood came knocking for him?

Seriously?  We turned that down?

Re: Teague - Selecting Battlers over talent.

Reply #19 –
Quote from: Raydan – on
and this is what's wrong with selection. I'm sure if you put anybody who a Carlton member out there they would have passion, but passion doesn't win you game. Ball control and skill does. Most of the season we've had Newnes on one wing and Cotrell on the other, neither gives you more than 12-15 touches a game, sure Cottrell runs around all game long, but is tirelessly predictable as he runs in straight lines. How can we win with inept wings, when the game has progress into a play on game and a quality wing is very important.

We have O'Brien who has proven that he is a two way runner, and a much better kick than Cottrell, but when he gets a low disposal game, he's dropped, in fact he's played two game over the past two seasons, hardly a fair go for a former pick 10 to prove his worth.

That being said his papers may be stamped, but if that's the case why didn't we trade O'Brien last season when Collingwood came knocking for him?

I like Owies and think he has something, but Gibbons doesn't play with passion and his games this season have been poor, Parks is not an AFL Level player yet and possibly won't ever be, but because he has passion he gets a game? No wonder we're at the bottom of the ladder again.
Cottrell is consistent with his attack on the ball and chasing/tackling.
Agree he doesn't get enough ball or hurt with his kicking etc.
O'brien isn't consistent with his attack on the ball or chasing etc, ditto for SPS.
Dow attacks the ball ok but his skills are poor,
Gibbons is a better package than the others but is small and is your depth handy Indian but won't ever be a chief.
Owies..not sure.

Too many light bodied non contested types in an era of contested high speed footy where pressure is king.
Richmond said they wouldn't have picked O'brien because he didn't fit their profile which is a kind way of saying he isnt hard enough... We just don't seem to be able to draft enough players who are complete enough in the important areas of the game.

Re: Teague - Selecting Battlers over talent.

Reply #20 –
Supporters fall into either-or traps far too easily. Players with low skill level are characterised as giving 100%, giving effort etc., whereas higher skilled players or high draft picks are characterised as going at half rat juice, squibbing contests etc. It's an easy trap to fall into, and I'm not convinced it's correct.

Re: Teague - Selecting Battlers over talent.

Reply #21 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
Supporters fall into either-or traps far too easily. Players with low skill level are characterised as giving 100%, giving effort etc., whereas higher skilled players or high draft picks are characterised as going at half rat juice, squibbing contests etc. It's an easy trap to fall into, and I'm not convinced it's correct.
You can have all the heart in the world, it doesn't mean you deserve a gig on an AFL field.

Fans carrying on about the lack of emotion from Teague, Cripps and others are on the losing track. The trick to being successful is to be a completely cold bastard, like Clarkson flooding the team back in front of Fev and laughing about it like it's a matter of fact!

If Cripps want to solve his problems, if Teague wants to solve his problems, they need to get cold and develop a steely focus on systems and process. Process isn't just about being better yourself, it's about leveraging the weakness of opponents. Opposition have been doing this to us for decades, it's time we hand some out! AFL is brutal, you need a dispassionate unrelenting and brutal focus.

The minute you see an opposition player or coach in the emotional space, you know you have them because they won't retain a focus needed to get across the line! That coach smashing the phone on the bench in the box isn't an effect, it's a cause!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Teague - Selecting Battlers over talent.

Reply #22 –
Cottrell 2.0 tackles per game O'Brien 1.4, so every two games Cottrell lays an extra tackle.

I'll disagree with O'Brien about his chasing, he runs all day and his skills are better than Cottrell's however you have to stretch your memory. The end of 2019, which was his last meaningful games he was running from half back and hitting targets plus, running past players to receive, then running hard back on turnovers. BTW I'm no O'Brien fan, but I don't understand why Cottrell gets a game over him when their stats are so similar yet Lachie has more tricks to his game.

Yes Dows kicking can be off, however the start to his last game before he got poked in the eye looked promising, with kicks and handballs hitting targets, he looked different, and at the moment I'm sure it's only injury keeping him out anyway.

Gibbons is badly out of form, so is SPS but I want Samo to be given a shot on a HFF rather than buried in the backline. He has more skill and talent in one finger than Gibbons has in his whole body, plus he wins the ball, something that Gibbons seems unwilling to do now.

Owies is a pressure forward and in my opinion should keep Fisher out when he's fit. In fact I can see us trading Fisher in the off season. In fact I hope to see an Owies / Durdin combination in years to come.

Re: Teague - Selecting Battlers over talent.

Reply #23 –
Fans cannot judge these players in difference to the roles they are given, it's like watching Setterfield get 35 possessions in a VFL midfield before watching him struggle on the AFL HBF.

The roles cannot be ignored, the same applies to Cottrell, Owies, SPS, LOB, Dow, etc., etc..!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Teague - Selecting Battlers over talent.

Reply #24 –
Quote from: Raydan – on
and this is what's wrong with selection. I'm sure if you put anybody who a Carlton member out there they would have passion, but passion doesn't win you game. Ball control and skill does. Most of the season we've had Newnes on one wing and Cotrell on the other, neither gives you more than 12-15 touches a game, sure Cottrell runs around all game long, but is tirelessly predictable as he runs in straight lines. How can we win with inept wings, when the game has progress into a play on game and a quality wing is very important.

We have O'Brien who has proven that he is a two way runner, and a much better kick than Cottrell, but when he gets a low disposal game, he's dropped, in fact he's played two game over the past two seasons, hardly a fair go for a former pick 10 to prove his worth.

Firstly, in 8 games this year Newnes has got 16 or more 6 times. 20+ 3 times and 27 against the Tigers no less. His other 2 games were 12 and 15.

Lochie obrien got 9 touches against the Tigers in his only outing. His only game last year he got 7.

Lochie has shown zero form, even in practice matches and is little more than a witches hat when on the ground. Cut our losses and move on.

So THAT is why Newnes has been playing, getting double LoBs output.
Cottrell has been less than impressive and I highlighted that earlier this week. Still, he has delivered more than LoB so far in half the total games.

Re: Teague - Selecting Battlers over talent.

Reply #25 –
Quote from: Raydan – on
Cottrell 2.0 tackles per game O'Brien 1.4, so every two games Cottrell lays an extra tackle.

I'll disagree with O'Brien about his chasing, he runs all day and his skills are better than Cottrell's however you have to stretch your memory. The end of 2019, which was his last meaningful games he was running from half back and hitting targets plus, running past players to receive, then running hard back on turnovers. BTW I'm no O'Brien fan, but I don't understand why Cottrell gets a game over him when their stats are so similar yet Lachie has more tricks to his game.

Yes Dows kicking can be off, however the start to his last game before he got poked in the eye looked promising, with kicks and handballs hitting targets, he looked different, and at the moment I'm sure it's only injury keeping him out anyway.

Gibbons is badly out of form, so is SPS but I want Samo to be given a shot on a HFF rather than buried in the backline. He has more skill and talent in one finger than Gibbons has in his whole body, plus he wins the ball, something that Gibbons seems unwilling to do now.

Owies is a pressure forward and in my opinion should keep Fisher out when he's fit. In fact I can see us trading Fisher in the off season. In fact I hope to see an Owies / Durdin combination in years to come.

Owies didn't has his best game on Sunday, but still laid 7 tackles - gotta luv that.
Finals, then 4 in a row!
 

Re: Teague - Selecting Battlers over talent.

Reply #26 –
If we keep selecting blokes who are not 100% we'll struggle. Cripps. Williams and Casboult are obviously not fit, although the latter was played out of necessity given our lack of rucks. Means you have 15 blokes on the ground that can give you full value. Add Harry getting injured and Cunningham going down within 90 sec we did well to get away with a 26pt loss against the top side.

Re: Teague - Selecting Battlers over talent.

Reply #27 –
Essendon have there noses in front for Cerra...

Re: Teague - Selecting Battlers over talent.

Reply #29 –
Quote from: capcom – on
We'll just have to up the ante .... think he's worth it
 Just meddle in the deal to block their progress, like they did with Papley!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"