Post Game Analysis: AFL 2021 Rd 12: Carlton vs West Coast

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Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2021 Rd 12: Carlton vs West Coast

Reply #105 – June 06, 2021, 11:10:43 pm

Quote from: shawny – on June 06, 2021, 11:02:06 pm

True to form you avoid answering, find a loophole in someones post that dares to question you and then when you have no comeback you get personal. I did try very hard not to reply to you but your week to week rolling BS know it all just got the better of me.

I won’t do it again. 🤐

Your post had 1 question mark, thus 1 question.
I highlighted that, and answered it.

What do you think i am trying to avoid? Teaching you english? Yes, but here we are....

Again, your comprehension skills need some work.

You wanna ask a question of me, use one of those curly things with a little circle at the bottom of it.

Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2021 Rd 12: Carlton vs West Coast

Reply #106 – June 07, 2021, 04:49:40 am

Quote from: shawny – on June 06, 2021, 11:09:43 pm

Your last paragraph is bloody depressing but worse
its brutally honest. Apart from who you mentioned the rest have question marks over them and can’t be relied upon to take us where we thought the rebuild would.
Htf after 6 years in a rebuild we only manage to add 1 real midfielder to the group we had 6 years ago is beyond comprehension. Whether we blame drafting stuff ups, lack of being able to develop, lack of getting any real ready made true bonifide mids in trade period I dunno. Still 1 midfielder in 6 years is a joke and imo the joint should be overhauled again from top to bottom
unless there is a clear explanation for that.

It would have to be a reflection of the fact that the people running our club are just not in touch with the true reality of our situation and are not capable of ever becoming so. As we all know, that will always get you in the end. Until that changes we will continue to flounder, or rearrange deck chairs or whatever it is we’re doing.

Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2021 Rd 12: Carlton vs West Coast

Reply #107 – June 07, 2021, 07:09:56 am

I was on the Teague Train - no longer.

Sure, his assistants on the whole are sub par.

But nothing has changed in recent weeks - terrible MC selections....poor match days moves (or none of note).

Let's be frank - half of out blokes look out of gas before half time!

The Club needs to bring some fresh blood (experienced) into the coaching ranks yesterday.

So much for the Woosha mentoring - we're playing worse now than for several years.

Something needs to give - if that's Teague I can live with it frankly.

Yesterday was ANOTHER totally unacceptable effort - by the MC before the game and both players and coaching during the game.

We played a team, who are useless away from home, missing 6+ of their best (Kelly, Shuey, Allen, Guv, Kennedy, Veneables, Brander, Ah Chee etc) - and folded.

Without a whimper. Again.

Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2021 Rd 12: Carlton vs West Coast

Reply #108 – June 07, 2021, 07:42:33 am

There's nothing a coach can do if your players can't execute basic skills. This has been an issue through several coaches. They can execute perfectly well at training, but instability, discontinuity and a losing culture have created headspace issues on game day that won't be overcome easily. Changing coaches won't make any difference.

Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2021 Rd 12: Carlton vs West Coast

Reply #109 – June 07, 2021, 07:43:29 am

I would love to know our results in last quarters this year especially in the last month.
As fly mentioned we look out of tickets well before the end of games and put captain is a huge concern. He’s unable to compete for any sort of prolonged period and spends a lot of time gasping for air even early in the contest and we are paying on the scoreboard for it as the opposition just run off him to easy. I know he’s not quick but I’m talking about even jogging wise the guy looks like he is labouring. Not a good look to have your captain looking like this.
Somethings up on that front.

Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2021 Rd 12: Carlton vs West Coast

Reply #110 – June 07, 2021, 07:49:16 am

Quote from: shawny – on June 07, 2021, 07:43:29 am

I would love to know our results in last quarters this year especially in the last month.
As fly mentioned we look out of tickets well before the end of games........................

I think it's a headspace issue, the plight of the downtrodden.

We need someone with some Peaky Blinders type brutality to lift us out of the gutter, playing nice doesn't help in the AFL it just leaves you the victim of bastards!

Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2021 Rd 12: Carlton vs West Coast

Reply #111 – June 07, 2021, 07:50:46 am

Whatever it is that is wrong runs a lot deeper than just the coach. Sacking Teague would not fix the problem IMO and may even ingrain the real issues even deeper.

Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2021 Rd 12: Carlton vs West Coast

Reply #112 – June 07, 2021, 08:01:38 am

We've a generation of AFL industry working against us, all the key people in the industry now in their 40s, 50s and 60s think their own failed careers are all due to our TPP violations. Fans can write this off as trivial, but it alters every aspect of our club's operation, we are painted poorly for potential sponsors, recruits(trade and draft), bureaucracy and the general public. It affects the broadcast of our games, the commentary in the media and the tone of social media.

You would have noticed Flubbo has taken particular interest in us at the moment, kicking the downtrodden, front pages pushing his own beloveds off the ticker tape.

Do you think that's coincidence when we are in the process of trying to secure signatures or attract trade targets, some of them his own club might have some interest in?

It's absolutely naivety to think this hasn't a genuine effect on and off the field!

Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2021 Rd 12: Carlton vs West Coast

Reply #113 – June 07, 2021, 08:10:34 am

Quote from: PaulP – on June 07, 2021, 07:42:33 am

There's nothing a coach can do if your players can't execute basic skills. This has been an issue through several coaches. They can execute perfectly well at training, but instability, discontinuity and a losing culture have created headspace issues on game day that won't be overcome easily. Changing coaches won't make any difference.

BANG!
What also has been an issue through several coaches is on field leadership. Cripps and Doc have been troubled with their own personal issues and have appeared to struggle with the burden of captaincy.

Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2021 Rd 12: Carlton vs West Coast

Reply #114 – June 07, 2021, 08:30:10 am

Quote from: LP – on June 07, 2021, 08:01:38 am

We've a generation of AFL industry working against us, all the key people in the industry now in their 40s, 50s and 60s think their own failed careers are all due to our TPP ...

I agree that the salary cap punishment has been more impactful and longer lasting than most people realise. I would have thought one generation (i.e. roughly 20 years) would usually be enough to purge all residual baggage and start afresh but it’s a good point you make - football does not follow the same natural cycles and rhythms as some other streams of life.
Having said that, we haven’t really helped ourselves and I don’t look kindly upon those who always play the “victim” card.

The whole club has that “woe is us” mentality which is only magnified when the media hacks join in with their patronizing tone. How often during the telecast yesterday did BT ask his fellow commentator, “For how much longer are Carlton supporters going to accept these type of losses?”?
Oh I don’t know Brian - for another 6 years, 3 months and 3 weeks. WTF?!

Been reading the usual threats from people not renewing memberships. Can’t say I blame them. I’ll be reconsidering but it’s more due to my age and the pandemic. Can’t believe we have record membership numbers. If only our football operations/fitness/recruiting/coaching departments could attract the same caliber of personnel as the marketing department!

Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2021 Rd 12: Carlton vs West Coast

Reply #115 – June 07, 2021, 09:08:22 am

I think the result in this game says it all, weakest WC team that I can recall that any other team in the league would have beaten. Even north. We need to recruit hardness as well as skill. We were weak and insipid with no killer instinct. No point bagging our high priced recruits they were the offered money and took it but they were the only ones coming no point talking about getting high profile midfielders they aren’t coming to us
Have a look at the past failures to lure smith shiels etc we are 10 years away from premiership
Teague is an easy target but liddle is a snake oil salesman selling us hope that wasn’t real
Give Murphy his 300 he ain’t the worst player out there but we have recruited nice need a couple of Mitch Robinson ugly win the hard ball tough types that make youngsters walk taller oh that’s right we traded him because he backed up a mate in a fight.
Nobody fears playing us because they know the can win with any team they put in and from any position unless they are rebuilding

Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2021 Rd 12: Carlton vs West Coast

Reply #116 – June 07, 2021, 09:17:43 am

Quote from: Gointocarlton – on June 07, 2021, 08:10:34 am

BANG!
What also has been an issue through several coaches is on field leadership. Cripps and Doc have been troubled with their own personal issues and have appeared to struggle with the burden of captaincy.

I don't think we've had strong leadership since Kernahan...and that tells a story.
( I'm also a bit of the opinion we might not have a united playing group since that time...but that's just a suspicion.)

Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2021 Rd 12: Carlton vs West Coast

Reply #117 – June 07, 2021, 09:27:35 am

Quote from: flyboy77 – on June 07, 2021, 07:09:56 am

I was on the Teague Train - no longer.

Sure, his assistants on the whole are sub par.

But nothing has changed in recent weeks - terrible MC selections....poor match days moves (or none of note).

Let's be frank - half of out blokes look out of gas before half time!

The Club needs to bring some fresh blood (experienced) into the coaching ranks yesterday.

So much for the Woosha mentoring - we're playing worse now than for several years.

Something needs to give - if that's Teague I can live with it frankly.

Yesterday was ANOTHER totally unacceptable effort - by the MC before the game and both players and coaching during the game.

We played a team, who are useless away from home, missing 6+ of their best (Kelly, Shuey, Allen, Guv, Kennedy, Veneables, Brander, Ah Chee etc) - and folded.

Without a whimper. Again.

Couldn't agree more.

In the words of the prophet (

), Donna Summer, Enough Is Enough.

I said it a few weeks back and I'll say it again, we've been conned, led down the garden path... over promised, under delivered.

Ground hog day, same old same old, rinse and repeat, keep doing what you've always done and you'll keep getting what you've always got - we've heard them all.

I wonder if when we threw out the 'Old Carlton' we didn't throw out the baby with the bath water. There were some aspects of the 'Old Carlton' that had a lot to do with excellence, initiative, and sustained ruthlessness at all levels - and the leaders of the club we chose/employed/recruited, exemplified those imperatives for success. The 'new Carlton' is nice, soft, co-operative, pretty to watch - at times, and, well... beige. All opposition clubs and supporters know that you only need to bring heat, and the BlueBaggers will melt.

Even as we now talk about the importance of dead obvious change in the coaching ranks, too many are choosing moderation, probably fearing any sweeping change would be too much like the 'Old Carlton'. Well, FFS, we do need a bit of 'Old Carlton' right now, some ruthlessness, some demanding of getting the best and most of all, putting an end to this soft impersonation, this soulless impersonation of our club.

So many of us can see the litany of errors re: maintaining failed assistants for YEARS, an MC that seems to be fighting with itself, a Mr Lloyd who assured us during the open communication with supporters that the 'above the shoulders' stuff was being well handled at the club (I shout, bullshizen... these players are NOT united, we play as individuals, there is NO culture of TEAM come match day and we are totally reactionary). We clearly appear to have NO brand, NO identity... what do we stand for?

Against the tide I would suggest there is nothing wrong with our fitness... these blokes only appear to be out of breath. When you're losing often, have a game plan designed for 'who the fck knows,' but not for this group... then players will seem exhausted because, mentally, they are. The same group, if they were winning, would be running out games brilliantly. Failure always looks slow, but success on the field brings a flood of 'good brain chemicals' into the body.

The Board would be and should be real damn nervous because a takeover would be pretty easy right now by any group with genuine nous and not afraid to make important change... yes, again with the change, but I suggest we DID throw out the baby with the bathwater with our last major 'rebuild'... seems we built a house of cards.

Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2021 Rd 12: Carlton vs West Coast

Reply #118 – June 07, 2021, 09:30:16 am

Quote from: Lods – on June 07, 2021, 09:17:43 am

I don't think we've had strong leadership since Kernahan...and that tells a story.
( I'm also a bit of the opinion we might not have a united playing group since that time...but that's just a suspicion.)

And I wonder what cause division? If you think back to the Judd comments about all he heard was talk about contracts when he first arrived, I wonder if that is still going on. I wonder if players look at the money a Williams or a Saad is on and think its unfair or something like that. That coupled with players supposedly not happy about being played in different positions to what they'd like or are used to. Something doesn't appear right.

Re: Post Game Analysis: AFL 2021 Rd 12: Carlton vs West Coast

Reply #119 – June 07, 2021, 09:31:39 am

Start at the defense..... We have defenders who won't, can't anymore and are no good at defending. Ed Curnow was sent down back to plug holes.
Stocker ended up on Ryan and it was an epic fail. Saad won't play hard defense, Docherty has lost his mojo down there and Williams is a failed midfield applicant who has been forced down back to justify his big pay packet.
Ryan should have had a more senior defender on him and not a kid... We can't play three small mid size defenders who want to chase the ball and not defend.
Teague has to fix the defense or he will lose his job eventually.