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Re: Post Game Passion; AFL Rd 19: Carlton vs North Melbourne

Reply #105 –
Normally I’m on the other site but reading this thread some of the comments make me laugh
The injury excuse
We have 12 guys  out
Casboult done and dusted
Boyd Mirkov McDonald rookies recycled players
McGovern has hardly touched it in 3 years anyway
I could go on
Essendon have more out yet there probably going to play finals
Whoever said that injury is an excuse for yesterday’s shameful effort has their hand on it

Our recruiting is crap
Our midfield recruiting over the last 6 years has been crap many on big money giving up draft picks
It’s Walsh Cripps then who else
I new we were in big trouble when they gave up the farm for McGovern and Setterfield when the club had its worse year on record in 2018
Stephen Silvangi  screwed this rebuild up big time
I predicted that this year we would be crap and once again a new List Manager Nick Austin decides to pay Zac Williams 4.8 million over 6 years to solve our midfield  speed woes
The guy has played 8 years as as unaccountable half back
How screwing stupid is it to give a guy such a massive contract to do a job he clearly is not capable of doing
The club is now saddled with paying a guy huge money for 6 years to play on nobody at HB
Ditto Jack Martin plays as a permanent HF does pretty much screw all

The club overrated him as well
5 years on about 3.5 million
This is a guy who has achieved virtually nothing his whole career
Other clubs simply wouldn’t do this
Why would a club give up a pick 8 for a guy who can play only one position
Ironically HB and pay him over 3 million for 5 years. At least Saad is fit but he is actually a limited player
Why would you give up pick 30 for a spud like Fogarty
Whilst all this is going on Murphy is handed games to get to 300 like he is entitled to get there and produces crap footy
Meanwhile Carroll Honey Ramsay can’t get a game
Honey and Ramsay have played one game between them in 2 years
That’s a joke

What i am saying is nothing has changed in 20 years
The club still lives in the past
It hugely overrates some
It says screw the others
How does that produce a team environment
How can a guy like SPS be allowed to play 93 games
It doesn’t get how to be successful in 2021
The board needs to go
The board is ultimately responsible for setting the tone
I’ve said this on the other website for years
This external review is another smoke screen
Until that happens nothing will change

Re: Post Game Passion; AFL Rd 19: Carlton vs North Melbourne

Reply #106 –
Quote from: Baggers – on
Spot on. And who knows what is going on behind closed doors at PP. Weiters and Stocks both looked 'out of sorts' yesterday. Totally out of character for Weiters and I'm not going to try to speculate why.
Weiters was sold out by his mates up the field. Weiters, SOS, Sefta combined couldn't have stopped that ball the way it streamed through the middle. I didn't watch most of the second half but I heard Teague say in his presser he moved him fwd. We go from hunter to hunted and panic far too easily.
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership

Re: Post Game Passion; AFL Rd 19: Carlton vs North Melbourne

Reply #107 –
Quote from: Baggers – on
Spot on. And who knows what is going on behind closed doors at PP. Weiters and Stocks both looked 'out of sorts' yesterday. Totally out of character for Weiters and I'm not going to try to speculate why.

I think the whole team looked off yesterday, and you'd have to wonder why. First time this year. I'm not going to vote in the Jim Park this week because I don't know who to vote for. A spare parts forward line, a spare parts / junior ruck brigade, Walsh ordinary when he never is etc. Just a bad day all round and one that should be forgotten and we move on to next week. All teams have shockers during the season.
 

Re: Post Game Passion; AFL Rd 19: Carlton vs North Melbourne

Reply #108 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
The team that has been on top all year (albeit not after tonight) is the same team that has struggled for the past couple of years.

You know what the difference is this year? They haven't been cruelled by injuries!

FFS people can hope and want all they want, but without players available what do you expect?

Someone posted earlier that you can't be 5% off in todays game, well we are 33% off in terms of players available to us and we expect to NOT be 5% off in output? Gimme a break. We were 0% in terms of KPFs available to us.

Eddie Maguire has been saying it for years, Injuries are not an excuse.....they are a reason!

The reason we are losing is because we cannot field a competitve lineup each week at the moment. You might be able to get away with it some weeks. But you simply cannot get away with it every week.

Look at the all conquering tigers. Listen to the media talk about their form being down due to the injuries they've had. We have had 50% more injuries than them for the past couple of months at least. Its a reason for them, but we have it worse and we should sack the coach?!

I knew this kind of reaction would come today which is why i made it pretty clear in the pre-game that we were screwed.
If you look at it logically, you can be disappointed, but understanding.
If you look at it emotionally you are simply in a rage and want blood.

Too many in the latter category......and have been for decades. Not enough in the first category. Stick by the coach and ride out the bumps.
We need to stop looking in the rear view mirror of the past 20 years and look ahead to next week. You might actually see the pot holes coming and be able to brace for them instead of losing your $hit when you spill your coffee in your lap because you're oblivious to whats ahead.


Our injury List
 Jordan Boyd
 Levi Casboult
 David Cuningham
 Sam Docherty
 Michael Gibbons
 Caleb Marchbank
 Oscar McDonald
 Mitch McGovern
 Alex Mirkov
 Sam Philp
 Marc Pittonet
 H
Apart from H, Pitto and Doc (pre 2021), I wouldnt piss on the rest if they were on fire.
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership

Re: Post Game Passion; AFL Rd 19: Carlton vs North Melbourne

Reply #109 –
Quote from: Gointocarlton – on
Given the turnover of players we have had in the last 5-6 years let alone the last 20, how does this "culture" or mindset of players not playing for the coach or getting up for important game manifest itself over such a long period of time across multiple coaches? 95% of this forum knew, or was fairly confident, we would lose yesterday even before H was an out. I am of the opinion that despite the outs, we had the talent on the park to beat NM and yet...

Firstly, 95% of the people knew we would lose yesterday? BS. Everyone was arguing against me for suggesting it was even possible.

Secondly, correlation does not equal causation. You look at the end result - poor performance - and assume the same reason for it. That is your problem and the problem from the club as a whole over the past 2 decades.
Poor performance? - Sack the coach.
Poor performance? - Sack the coach
etc.

How about looking at it this way....
Poor performance under Brittain = Injuries
Poor performance under Pagan = Lost the players
Poor performance under Ratten = Injuries
Poor performance under Malthouse = fractured club
Poor performance under Bolton = lost the players
Poor performance under Teague = Injuries.

One thing Teague has been able to do is become competitive in our on-field performances. When he first took over, he had a youngish, inexperienced list with some aging stars. Now those kids are starting to come good and we can't field a side. It was only our competitiveness that has allowed us to put in an acceptable behaviour the last couple weeks. To be fair, this result should've occurred 3 weeks ago.

What is being said now is the same thing that was being said at the halfway point. Then, as predicted, we started playing some easier opposition and had players available and the wins 'miraculously' came. Now we have been hit by more injuries (and to key personnel) and our performances start to struggle again.

Its not rocket science guys.

Re: Post Game Passion; AFL Rd 19: Carlton vs North Melbourne

Reply #110 –
Quote from: Gointocarlton – on
Our injury List
 Jordan Boyd
 Levi Casboult
 David Cuningham
 Sam Docherty
 Michael Gibbons
 Caleb Marchbank
 Oscar McDonald
 Mitch McGovern
 Alex Mirkov
 Sam Philp
 Marc Pittonet
 H
Apart from H, Pitto and Doc (pre 2021), I wouldnt piss on the rest if they were on fire.

I mentioned this a couple of weeks ago and you couldn't get it through your head what i was talking about. re injuries = playing players out of position = results suffer.

I did this in the pregame....and maybe it sinks in now....
Quote
Today could get ugly.....
Carltons KPF's depth chart..

1. McKay - Injured
2. C. Curnow - Injured
3. Casboult - Injured
4. McGovern - Injured
5. McDonald - Injured
6. Silvagni - playing.....but is also backup ruck.
7* TDK - Playing 1st ruck because, yep, Pittonet is injured.
8* Cripps - coming back from injury, and a midfielder, but perhaps our best option up forward......despite not being able to actually kick.

...and people want to sack Teague for lack of results?
I should've expanded that list to 10 and included Jones and Weitering in it and then done a KPD list as well.

So i couldn't care less who you choose to piss on or not.

Facts are facts, we can not field a balanced side. Results will suffer.
The game has been played with rucks, key defenders and key forwards for over a century. Why do you think that is? Because it works. We physically cannot do that now and you act like it doesn't matter. 100 years of coaches say otherwise.

Re: Post Game Passion; AFL Rd 19: Carlton vs North Melbourne

Reply #111 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
I think the whole team looked off yesterday, and you'd have to wonder why. First time this year. I'm not going to vote in the Jim Park this week because I don't know who to vote for. A spare parts forward line, a spare parts / junior ruck brigade, Walsh ordinary when he never is etc. Just a bad day all round and one that should be forgotten and we move on to next week. All teams have shockers during the season.

Walsh was down because....
1. We were dominated in the ruck by the bloke who has the world record in hitouts.
2. Half our midfield were forced to play forward because our forward line was sitting in the injury room
3. Walsh got more attention as a result of '2' and it proved that he is human after all
4. Our lack of team balance finally broke our confidence and effort was down across the board which hurt him as well.

Re: Post Game Passion; AFL Rd 19: Carlton vs North Melbourne

Reply #112 –
Quote from: shawny – on

It’s all excuses mate. Every year it’s a new one.

Yes we have injures but seriously a side who still had a small chance to play finals and then to lose the way we did to the bottom placed side is never acceptable if we are really a team that is close to making finals.

If we lost by a goal or 2 maybe missing players could have been the difference but not the way we lost today.

We again will be front and centre media wise and fair enough too. If Essendon or Collingwood performed the way we have this year we will be sh1tcanning them like there is no tomorrow.

Essendon have had a heap of injuries to key personnel yet they are on the verge of making the 8. How come injuries hasn’t stopped them this season from performing to expectations like it has us.

It’s sad that as a supporter base we are so accustomed to losing that we roll out the excuses before we even play the bloody game.

If we were in year 1 or 2 of the rebuild some of the excuses may be valid not in year 6 and if we really want to be respected never to the bottom team.


You ignoring that we were effectively down to 3 on bench at half time when the wheels fell off?

Or the fact that our make shift forward line were wasteful with scoring which allowed north the freedom to stream forward?

Or do you want us to flood back and then have no get out kick up the line?

I look at this thread and think are tactics not people's strong suit?  To half time we were fine.  The lack of score board pressure allowed north the freedom to play as they liked, and sucked the life out of us once the repeat forward entries dried up.

"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Post Game Passion; AFL Rd 19: Carlton vs North Melbourne

Reply #113 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on
I look at this thread and think are tactics not people's strong suit? 

Thats the same conclusion i've come to when reading around recently, both here and on social media. Its kind of disturbing really.

People seem to look at the ladder and not much else in determining who should win.....and even then its through very much navy tinted glasses.

Re: Post Game Passion; AFL Rd 19: Carlton vs North Melbourne

Reply #114 –
Quote from: keogh – on
Normally I’m on the other site but reading this thread some of the comments make me laugh
The injury excuse
We have 12 guys  out
Casboult done and dusted
Boyd Mirkov McDonald rookies recycled players
McGovern has hardly touched it in 3 years anyway
I could go on
Essendon have more out yet there probably going to play finals
Whoever said that injury is an excuse for yesterday’s shameful effort has their hand on it

Our recruiting is crap
Our midfield recruiting over the last 6 years has been crap many on big money giving up draft picks
It’s Walsh Cripps then who else
I new we were in big trouble when they gave up the farm for McGovern and Setterfield when the club had its worse year on record in 2018
Stephen Silvangi  screwed this rebuild up big time
I predicted that this year we would be crap and once again a new List Manager Nick Austin decides to pay Zac Williams 4.8 million over 6 years to solve our midfield  speed woes
The guy has played 8 years as as unaccountable half back
How screwing stupid is it to give a guy such a massive contract to do a job he clearly is not capable of doing
The club is now saddled with paying a guy huge money for 6 years to play on nobody at HB
Ditto Jack Martin plays as a permanent HF does pretty much screw all

The club overrated him as well
5 years on about 3.5 million
This is a guy who has achieved virtually nothing his whole career
Other clubs simply wouldn’t do this
Why would a club give up a pick 8 for a guy who can play only one position
Ironically HB and pay him over 3 million for 5 years. At least Saad is fit but he is actually a limited player
Why would you give up pick 30 for a spud like Fogarty
Whilst all this is going on Murphy is handed games to get to 300 like he is entitled to get there and produces crap footy
Meanwhile Carroll Honey Ramsay can’t get a game
Honey and Ramsay have played one game between them in 2 years
That’s a joke

What i am saying is nothing has changed in 20 years
The club still lives in the past
It hugely overrates some
It says screw the others
How does that produce a team environment
How can a guy like SPS be allowed to play 93 games
It doesn’t get how to be successful in 2021
The board needs to go
The board is ultimately responsible for setting the tone
I’ve said this on the other website for years
This external review is another smoke screen
Until that happens nothing will change

There’s a bit of truth in this post, however Silvagni’s starting point wasn’t great and he’s done well to get something from the Tom Bell types which riddled our list. Nobody is giving you the Patrick Dangerfield footy card if you’re holding Nick Duigan.

Jury remains out on Dow and SPS, but I still hold hope for Dow who needs to develop his upper body now. Re SPS he just doesn’t appear to want it enough?

McGovern and Setterfield are busts, Fogarty a solid foot soldier/depth.

Williams, Martin and Saad are all overpaid for their product but I’m holding on to hope that the front ending of these contracts means that their ongoing salaries are not materially out of line with peers which will allow us to build depth. Fingers crossed!

Injuries are an issue and Russell has to go. Very straightforward.







Re: Post Game Passion; AFL Rd 19: Carlton vs North Melbourne

Reply #115 –
Quote from: Gointocarlton – on
Our injury List
 Jordan Boyd
 Levi Casboult
 David Cuningham
 Sam Docherty
 Michael Gibbons
 Caleb Marchbank
 Oscar McDonald
 Mitch McGovern
 Alex Mirkov
 Sam Philp
 Marc Pittonet
 H
Apart from H, Pitto and Doc (pre 2021), I wouldnt piss on the rest if they were on fire.
Left out Charlie. Only needed those 3 plus Charlie and we play yesterday's game different tactically.

We would have been better player Jones forward then playing the same type of game we played against Geelong when our structures we smashed by injury. Would've have stopped North scoring alot. We tactically got it wrong yesterday and made it too easy for them.

Re: Post Game Passion; AFL Rd 19: Carlton vs North Melbourne

Reply #116 –
Just watched the game again. Talk about no defensive IQ; talk about no respect for the defensive aspect of the game. It was as if we turned back the clock to pre bye performances... the old one-way thinking and strategy - only offense matters.

Taking Kennedy out of the midfield was a huge mistake. He's been the bull in there since the bye. Should have looked at other options to support the forward line.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: Post Game Passion; AFL Rd 19: Carlton vs North Melbourne

Reply #117 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on
You ignoring that we were effectively down to 3 on bench at half time when the wheels fell off?

Or the fact that our make shift forward line were wasteful with scoring which allowed north the freedom to stream forward?

Or do you want us to flood back and then have no get out kick up the line?

I look at this thread and think are tactics not people's strong suit?  To half time we were fine.  The lack of score board pressure allowed north the freedom to play as they liked, and sucked the life out of us once the repeat forward entries dried up.



Tactics or no tactics there is no excuse for lack of effort.  We pick and choose as a club and until we stop making excuses and start playing consistent committed footy we will stay anchored in the bottom tier again.  If it’s not the coach, it’s the fitness bloke if it’s not the fitness bloke it’s and bad luck of injuries. Aren’t you tired of all the excuses. 

We got belted up by a team that many thought may not win a game this year in the their first year of a rebuild against a team in their 6th.  Think about that without wearing the blue glasses and you should realise how disappointing yesterday’s result  was and what is yet another failed season.

Re: Post Game Passion; AFL Rd 19: Carlton vs North Melbourne

Reply #118 –
Quote from: Baggers – on
Taking Kennedy out of the midfield was a huge mistake. He's been the bull in there since the bye. Should have looked at other options to support the forward line.
Yep, I mentioned if we did this it would be a mistake in the pre-game thread, not just Kennedy but Dow and SPS as well.

We continually flirt with players form by playing out of position. Historically guys would run into VFL form, then we bring them into the AFL in a foreign position.

Is it a failure of player development or list management?

But I think there is a bigger problem.

I'm not sure Cripps is the unifying presence we think and when he's in the midfield with the likes of Walsh and Kennedy things are actually worse because we've less leg speed. When Cripps had those first two burst out of the midfield we were all anticipating a captains moment, like Kennedy's goal a week or so back, but he refused to take the shot and only did so on the 3rd attempt late in the game, when the result was done and dusted and the pressure as off. In my opinion, that is not an example of a natural leader, it's not what someone like Cotchin, Hodge or Selwood would do. Cripps has all the natural flair and ability, but he looks like it is being buried in pressure.

Have we done like the Maltidas and made the best player captain, only to have the player and the team pay the price?
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Post Game Passion; AFL Rd 19: Carlton vs North Melbourne

Reply #119 –
Quote from: Gointocarlton – on
Our injury List
 Jordan Boyd
 Levi Casboult
 David Cuningham
 Sam Docherty
 Michael Gibbons
 Caleb Marchbank
 Oscar McDonald
 Mitch McGovern
 Alex Mirkov
 Sam Philp
 Marc Pittonet
 H
Apart from H, Pitto and Doc (pre 2021), I wouldnt piss on the rest if they were on fire.

Absolutely spot on. The ones we miss imo is Harry Doc Cunningham and Pit the rest are in and out of the senior team or vfl grade. Our injury list is long but the quality of players out is not strong.

You watch next week when eddie (his last year) and Williams (who has done sfa) miss they will be used to to the why saints beat us.

You watch.