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Topic: AFL Rd 20 2022 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Adelaide (Read 13741 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: AFL Rd 20 2022 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Adelaide

Reply #75 –
Quote from: LP – on
When the spine are all fit SoJ is not part of the spine.

When the spine is all fit then he is then competing with Setterfield, Cottrell, Plowman, Newnes, Newman, LoB, etc., etc for a utility role. Given he's hardly played a moment in D50 then he's unlikely to displace the defenders, that means he has to compete with the deep running types, Cottrell, Setterfield and LoB.

I presume fans don't have him kicking a midfielder or small forward out of the squad?

He plays half forward and plays the position better than Owies and Durdin combined.
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: AFL Rd 20 2022 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Adelaide

Reply #76 –
Quote from: madbluboy – on
He plays half forward and plays the position better than Owies and Durdin combined.
Not really, that depends on a highly selective version of what you think the modern AFL HFF should be.

We've missed Owies deep running over the last few weeks, it has detrimentally affected the way the likes of Durdin, LoB, Cerra and Fisher play. SoJ doesn't bring that deep running, I get that SoJ plays the lead up marking HFF better than Owies or Durdin, but Charlie has been the one filling that role in recent weeks and now we have TDK to rest forward also.

We can't rotate TDK, Pitto and the other talls off the bench because we are already a team short on pace, and the talls occupying the bench leave us short of run and aerobic capacity. That leaves the MC with a choice, TDK or SoJ, and clearly TDK gets the vote at the moment. Put another tall on the bench and guys like Saad, LoB, Doc, Durdin, Fisher, Walsh and Owies suffer.

SoJ isn't competing with Owies or Durdin for a SF or HFF position, SoJ is not a pacey crumbing forward.

Earlier this season / pre-season I mentioned this was going to happen at some stage and forum members lambasted me for it, but any blind Freddy who isn't smitten with the Silvagni surname could see this coming. Now they are treating SoJ being dropped like a team and club death sentence, but it's not terminal, it's no different to Newnes, Cottrell, Satterfield or LoB being rotated through selection.

SoJ wasn't the first and won't be the last fan favourite to find himself in the VFL for a period of time, we are a strong list growing in strength each week and non-core players should not expect residency in the AFL team.

Nobody can argue either way, be it for or against, that making such decisions does not come with a cost!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: AFL Rd 20 2022 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Adelaide

Reply #77 –
Jack is the 3rd tall forward and it's a important position.
McGovern couldn't handle it and has been sent down back and as Fritsch from Melbourne has shown a good 3rd tall forward helps win premierships.
Mind boggling decision to drop Jack and we have a done an Andrew Walker on him by using him as a bandaid then discarding him when he was played out of form by sacrificing himself for the team .

Re: AFL Rd 20 2022 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Adelaide

Reply #78 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Jack is the 3rd tall forward and it's a important position.
McGovern couldn't handle it and has been sent down back and as Fritsch from Melbourne has shown a good 3rd tall forward helps win premierships.
Our 3rd talls are not like Bailey Fritsch, Fritsch is both quick and an elite aerobic runner as well as being strong overhead like our talls, probably the only runner we have that is comparable is Cottrell.

The progress of Young has change our team dynamic significantly, fans need to accept it.

Gov, Young, Weitering have the D50 stitched up, BigH, Charlie and probably TDK have the F50 stitched up.

While TDK is in the mix SoJ won't be a ruck option.

Suspect the only place SoJ can compete is on the wing against Setterfield, Newnes or Cottrell, but SoJ is going to have to take his run up a whole new level just to keep up, just as his team-mates have done to improve in 2022.

Even that wing opportunity becomes limited when all of Cripps, Walsh, Cerra, Kennedy, Hewett and Fisher play and we toy starting Walsh, Hewett, Fisher or Cerra on a wing at times.

I'm a bit surprised Motlop retained his spot.

There is a lot of complaining about SoJ being dropped, but I still haven't read a viable argument for who he replaces in that side outside of bad form or an injury.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: AFL Rd 20 2022 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Adelaide

Reply #79 –
He just needs to find his touch - his work rate is elite. His one touch game has been very fumbly of late, disposal by foot and decision making has been a bit off and turned the ball over a few times. I look forward seeing Jack in VFL to regain form and win his position back in the side. I reckon he will be back in 2 weeks.

Re: AFL Rd 20 2022 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Adelaide

Reply #80 –
One of the big things I have noticed about this season under Voss is that players are given roles and the expectations are set for those roles and they are competing with others on the list for the team spots available for each role. Wings, small forwards, mid/tall backs, inside mids etc. They aren't playing players in the positions they aren't slated for, mids played as forwards, for example, like in previous years. That's one of the reasons I can see why Dow isn't getting a game. JSOS is a product of this, he is a tall forward competing with Charlie, McKay and now TDK, they just can't fit them all in the side and they won't play them out of position, unless by absolute necessity, (SOS rucking or Kemp as a tall back). Even if you categorise JSOS as a 3rd tall forward there is still only one place in the side for that position and they have gone with TDK this week.

I reckon their formula is
7 Backs, 2 tall 5 mix of lockdown/running/Intercept
3 Wings
7 Forwards 3 tall 4 small/Medium (Sometimes one of these will be a mid coming of Half Forwrd like Walsh has been doing)
1 Ruck (plus Backup from tall Fwd)
4 Mids (Mostly inside mids with run coming from wingers)
 

Re: AFL Rd 20 2022 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Adelaide

Reply #81 –
As Mad indicated, we had all those talls in Round 1 against Richmond....AND played Silvagni and Martin. Silvagni was going at better a goal a game in those first half a dozen rounds until Pittonet went down. I still think he could come in and play in place of one of the smalls....probably Motlop. Silvagni might not be as quick but reckon his forward half pressure chasing and tackling is up there with anyone else in the F50.

It's hard to see where Martin now squeezes his way back into the side.

Re: AFL Rd 20 2022 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Adelaide

Reply #82 –
SOJ is a forward pocket that is capable of providing a lot of link between the forwards and the back half of the ground.

He can pinch hit key forward, and can also play as a midfielder.

He is a very rounded individual and plays like his Grandfather and has a team oriented ethos and is only getting a chop out this week, because finals arent won in July.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: AFL Rd 20 2022 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Adelaide

Reply #83 –
Quote from: WASurfer – on
As Mad indicated, we had all those talls in Round 1 against Richmond....AND played Silvagni and Martin. Silvagni was going at better a goal a game in those first half a dozen rounds until Pittonet went down. I still think he could come in and play in place of one of the smalls....probably Motlop. Silvagni might not be as quick but reckon his forward half pressure chasing and tackling is up there with anyone else in the F50.

It's hard to see where Martin now squeezes his way back into the side.
We had the 5 talls, (Pitto, TDK, Charlie,Harry, JSOS) for the first 3 rounds of the season, not since. I just think with TDK's development since Pitto went down has meant they think 4 talls are enough and we are better off playing an extra small, hence Durds, Owies, Motlop play
 

Re: AFL Rd 20 2022 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Adelaide

Reply #84 –
Love to see how blue chip forwards Harry and Charlie would be going now if they were getting smashed in the ruck for half a season. I suspect based on their fragile history they wouldn't be going.


2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: AFL Rd 20 2022 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Adelaide

Reply #85 –
Quote from: NudeNut – on
We had the 5 talls, (Pitto, TDK, Charlie,Harry, JSOS) for the first 3 rounds of the season, not since. I just think with TDK's development since Pitto went down has meant they think 4 talls are enough and we are better off playing an extra small, hence Durds, Owies, Motlop play
The fan reaction is funny, to me this is our MC / coaching panel addressing the issues we saw earlier in the season when we were losing big leads due to a lack of run.

Fans actually called for this change, now they have got it they are complaining!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: AFL Rd 20 2022 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Adelaide

Reply #86 –
Quote from: madbluboy – on
Love to see how blue chip forwards Harry and Charlie would be going now if they were getting smashed in the ruck for half a season. I suspect based on their fragile history they wouldn't be going.
BigH has been rucking the F50 stoppages for a few weeks now.

How is smashing a Coleman medallist or a potential Coleman medallist a solution to your SoJ problems?
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: AFL Rd 20 2022 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Adelaide

Reply #87 –
Quote from: madbluboy – on
Love to see how blue chip forwards Harry and Charlie would be going now if they were getting smashed in the ruck for half a season. I suspect based on their fragile history they wouldn't be going.


You may well be right, he has done what he had to do for the team and is probably suffering a bit for it now. Love the bloke and hope he gets back.

Re: AFL Rd 20 2022 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Adelaide

Reply #88 –
Quote from: LP – on
BigH has been rucking the F50 stoppages for a few weeks now.

How is smashing a Coleman medallist or a potential Coleman medallist a solution to your SoJ problems?

I don't have any problems with Jack. He plays his position fine, ruck not so much but he gave it his all. If only we had a 200cm plus forward who could have given TDK a chop out.
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: AFL Rd 20 2022 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Adelaide

Reply #89 –
Quote from: LP – on
BigH has been rucking the F50 stoppages for a few weeks now.

How is smashing a Coleman medallist or a potential Coleman medallist a solution to your SoJ problems?
Harry is fairly hopeless in the ruck, we had Jack bodying up Pruess and holding his own. Unless Jack is injured or just stuffed it's a weird decision for supporters to get their head around. If Jacks problem is pace then I don't see how Pittonet is the fix...