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Topic: That Saad Lad (Read 27031 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: That Saad Lad

Reply #30 –
Quote
You're failing to grasp the notion that the WADA Code is there to protect the clean athletes - the ones who do make sure they steer away from PEDs.

Well summed up Mav.
Finals, then 4 in a row!

Re: That Saad Lad

Reply #31 –
Yeah... Deporting petty offenders  to Australia was also intended to protect those that did the right thing. I'm sure it even reduced the amount of missing bread.

punish the kid, but FFS 2 years (soon to be 4) for a drink, when others in the process have almost SFA responsibility to assist in reducing such errors is heavy handed and unrealistic.

For this code to remain relevant ( long term ) it needs to shift its focus from solely a prosecutorial deterrent.





“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect.”

― Mark Twain

Re: That Saad Lad

Reply #32 –
Why do you bother with this tripe?

To paraphrase you, "punish the kid, but FFS 2 years (soon to be 4) for 32 mg doses of Methyl Synepherine which so increases energy levels, endurance, focus and enhances drive & muscular pumps that sprinters are willing to use it despite the risk of being banned".  Seems your point gets lost in the details ...

Re: That Saad Lad

Reply #33 –
That's the problem Mav, you can't see past the intricate detail of this case. I'm discussing the inequity of policy, and your linking the dots to justify a breach. I'm not disputing breach. I'm saying where a penalty is severe and not subject to intent then either the responsibility to inform and avoid collateral shrapnel such Saed needs to be broadened or your penalties need to be flexible enough to allow for such consideration.   I'm discussing politics your discussing law.
 

It's becoming a usual occurrence but yet again we'll have to agree to disagree.  ;)
“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect.”

― Mark Twain

Re: That Saad Lad

Reply #34 –
Yep, ASADA should have some method, whether it be via telephone enquiries or a website which would enable players to get confirmation that ingredients on the label are WADA-compliant.  And the AFL should hold information sessions in which players are warned not to take any supplement or drug without first checking that all the ingredients are legit.  Oh wait, that's all in place already.  You apparently didn't know that or else you wouldn't make the baseless claim that you do.

Re: That Saad Lad

Reply #35 –
Quote from: Mav – on
Yep, ASADA should have some method, whether it be via telephone enquiries or a website which would enable players to get confirmation that ingredients on the label are WADA-compliant.  And the AFL should hold information sessions in which players are warned not to take any supplement or drug without first checking that all the ingredients are legit.  Oh wait, that's all in place already.  You apparently didn't know that or else you wouldn't make the baseless claim that you do.

Yep, and sports people to be tested get a manifest of thousands of products that are deemed WADA safe. There is some of just about everything on that list, so many things you struggle not to find at least one item on just about any supplement shop's or chemist's shelf.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"
 

Re: That Saad Lad

Reply #36 –
Quote from: Mav – on
Yep, ASADA should have some method, whether it be via telephone enquiries or a website which would enable players to get confirmation that ingredients on the label are WADA-compliant.  And the AFL should hold information sessions in which players are warned not to take any supplement or drug without first checking that all the ingredients are legit.  Oh wait, that's all in place already.  You apparently didn't know that or else you wouldn't make the baseless claim that you do.

No Mav, I'm well aware of that. As Ive said in previous posts, a shared responsibility by substance manufacturers and suppliers with a stake in the sale of such products, to adopt better communication is not unreasonable.  I raised the possibility of a labeling system as one example where an athlete can easily identify a banned substance. He'll they already exist for other potentially detrimental goods, and for marketing purposes. To hard? Then alter the penalty system.
“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect.”

― Mark Twain

Re: That Saad Lad

Reply #37 –
By the way, how stupid is Saad?  He must have heard about the 2 VFL players who were banned after drinking supplement drinks, and unless he was living on the Moon he would have been hearing daily about the ASADA investigation into the Essendon "supplement" scandal.  And he didn't get the message he needed to check on supplements he was taking?  It seems incredible he didn't ask the club doctor at least to check it out. 

Re: That Saad Lad

Reply #38 –
Quote from: Mav – on
By the way, how stupid is Saad?  He must have heard about the 2 VFL players who were banned after drinking supplement drinks, and unless he was living on the Moon he would have been hearing daily about the ASADA investigation into the Essendon "supplement" scandal.  And he didn't get the message he needed to check on supplements he was taking?  It seems incredible he didn't ask the club doctor at least to check it out.

Sometimes people need to be told their brain is not there as stuffing to stop your eyeballs from rolling into your head. Not saying this about Saad, but players need to ask questions all the time to stay out of trouble. Especially with the recent season that has gone by.
This digital world is too much for us insects to understand.

Re: That Saad Lad

Reply #39 –
You do know, DU, that the label clearly named the banned ingredient.  This was not a case where the label was misleading. 

Although it would be nice for there to be a mandatory warning on labels that banned drugs are included, that's pretty much out of WADA's control, isn't it?  These supplements can be used by non-athletes and athletes who compete in sports that aren't bound by the WADA code (e.g. bodybuilders).  WADA has no control over those athletes, nor over the drugs or supplements sold to them. 

If warnings are to be mandatory on labels, the Australian government has to do the honours. 

Re: That Saad Lad

Reply #40 –


Yes Saad  was stupid, Mav I agree, do you think (at a guess that is) lets say for example a red dot half an inch in diameter, signifying g potentially in breach of doping code,  on the bottle he purchased may have led to him not purchasing it ?
“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect.”

― Mark Twain

Re: That Saad Lad

Reply #41 –
Quote from: Mav – on
You do know, DU, that the label clearly named the banned ingredient.  This was not a case where the label was misleading. 

Although it would be nice for there to be a mandatory warning on labels that banned drugs are included, that's pretty much out of WADA's control, isn't it?  These supplements can be used by non-athletes and athletes who compete in sports that aren't bound by the WADA code (e.g. bodybuilders).  WADA has no control over those athletes, nor over the drugs or supplements sold to them. 

If warnings are to be mandatory on labels, the Australian government has to do the honours.

Yes I know that Mav if you refer to an earlier post of mine on previous page in this thread,  I discussed that I thought burying the  breaching constituents in ingredient list isn't enough IMO. I'm not suggesting athletes are dumb, just that not many of us are doctors or chemists and for some of us (myself included) every ingredient list looks the same.
“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect.”

― Mark Twain

Re: That Saad Lad

Reply #42 –
Then write to your parliamentarian.  Neither the AFL nor ASADA can make that a law.  And no doubt if it does, there'll be sob stories about athletes who took a drink out of someone else's personal bottle into which the supplement had been poured, and the athlete will point out that he was deprived of the opportunity of seeing the red dot. 

Right at the start of the code, there is a clear statement that the athlete has the primary responsibility for ensuring that banned drugs don't enter his system, and that DVs are strict offences.  Blame can't be shifted unless the 2 exemptions can be invoked, and neither was available to Saad.

Re: That Saad Lad

Reply #43 –
Quote from: denimundies – on
Yes I know that Mav if you refer to an earlier post of mine on previous page in this thread,  I discussed that I thought burying the  breaching constituents in ingredient list isn't enough IMO. I'm not suggesting athletes are dumb, just that not many of us are doctors or chemists and for some of us (myself included) every ingredient list looks the same.
Something which starts with Methyl (as in Methyl Amphetamine, known as Speed), and ends with a drug that looks like pseudoephedrine, a notoriously banned substance, should have raised red flags even in the absence of red dots.

Re: That Saad Lad

Reply #44 –
Eventually a dramatic shift in philosophy from prosecutorial deterrence will need to take place to preserve AD code. In time more and more Saads will surface, and sooner or later  public opinion will shift.
“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect.”

― Mark Twain