Ruck & Roll (Pittonet VS De Koning VS Mirkov)

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Ruck & Roll (Pittonet VS De Koning VS Mirkov)

February 05, 2023, 05:26:34 pm

One of the more intriguing aspects of our onfield plans is how the match committee & coaching dept. intend on using the three regular ruckman on our list.

At present, we have Marc Pittonet who is, in principle, match ready and as good as he is going to get. Then we have Tom De Koning who is still learning his craft but can be used up forward even though he has been used in stints up forward even though he does then to spoil Curnow & McKay in the marking contests. Lastly, there is young Markov who whilst still quite raw, apparently coming on in leaps & bounds.

The 'elephant in the room' is the fact that De Koning is out of contract at the end of this season and there is bound to be a handful of clubs interested in winning his services even though he isn't a fully finished product (or is he ??).

Should Markov be given some senior experience this year ??

Can De Koning be played as a permanent forward with some pinch-hitting in the ruck ??

Would Pittonet benefit from having Markov as his back-up instead of De Koning ??

Would the club ever consider moving Pittonet on and putting all their faith into the two younger guys ??

Should the club bite the bullet and trade De Koning this year & what effect would that trade have on the rest of the playing list ??

If TDK was to be traded, what sort of trade price should we be asking for given he may be offered crazy money to jump ship ??

Re: Ruck & Roll (Pittonet VS De Koning VS Markov)

Reply #1 – February 05, 2023, 05:53:14 pm

Markov is miles away, Gawn was the best young ruck I've seen in years, and he was nearly cut after 3 or 4 years.

Our problem with rucks might be hanging onto TDK long enough for him to mature.

Add to this, we've got Young adding size and weight, people forget this kid rucked for the Dogs and did OK, in this regard he has more AFL ruck experience than any of our alternatives, and he could do it again!

Keep in mind for KPDs we are almost overloaded.

Re: Ruck & Roll (Pittonet VS De Koning VS Markov)

Reply #2 – February 05, 2023, 06:59:53 pm

Mirkov is progressing very nicely and is far from being “miles off it”.

The plan is for him to break into the AFL team this season, but probably in the latter half of the season. To a certain extent, that will depend on our other rucks staying fit and the development of Harry Lemmey; a ruck/key forward.

The change to the sub rule may encourage more clubs to have two genuine rucks in the 23. A fresh De Koning coming on late in the third quarter could create havoc. Alternatively, subbing Pitto off at 3/4 time to add run could be advantageous.

I’d be playing Pitto and De Koning (and Jack) in the 22 to start with. If Mirkov continues to improve, I’d bring him in to give Pitto a break. I’m not sure that you could have Mirkov and Pitto in the 22.

Re: Ruck & Roll (Pittonet VS De Koning VS Markov)

Reply #3 – February 05, 2023, 07:47:14 pm

Geelong have changed the ruck landscape. Will be interesting what other clubs do this year.

Re: Ruck & Roll (Pittonet VS De Koning VS Markov)

Reply #4 – February 05, 2023, 08:55:26 pm

When Pittonet was in the ruck, Cripps picks up Brownlow votes. It's his work after the ruck contest that sets him apart.

Re: Ruck & Roll (Pittonet VS De Koning VS Markov)

Reply #5 – February 06, 2023, 06:32:26 am

I have the feeling in my bones TDK will leave us for a better/lucrative contract. Of course I hope he doesn't but...

Re: Ruck & Roll (Pittonet VS De Koning VS Markov)

Reply #6 – February 06, 2023, 05:45:32 pm

Quote from: LP – on February 05, 2023, 05:53:14 pm

Keep in mind for KPDs we are almost overloaded.

You say what now?!

Young and Weitering.

....and....Durdin (if he can stay fit)......Kemp, Marchbank, McGovern, Akieu are NOT key defenders.

Re: Ruck & Roll (Pittonet VS De Koning VS Markov)

Reply #7 – February 06, 2023, 05:57:49 pm

Pittonet is still underrated. His ruckwork is elite. He plays better as a ruck, rather than a backup KPP. Let him ruck and grind down his opponent.

TDK is great as a ruck in small bursts. Can jump over most and take a mark around the ground. If he was opposed to Pittonet though, he'd struggle as he'd get worn down by the aggressive style he plays. So we need to find TDK a backup spot. We have 2 coleman medalists in our forward half already, not much use for him there (and along with Jack) makes us too tall.

Mirkov (no 'a' in Mirkov) is in the mold of TDK, athletic and 'jumpy'....but has some extra height, although is lacking in body size. He could become a bit of a Mason Cox type for us who has height to match it with everyone, plus an ability to jump. If he can kick a goal, he could become better than TDK.

Jack Silvagni is a capable backup that adds grunt. He won't necessarily win you hitouts, but he is an improvement on the rest when the ball hits the ground. Most ruckwork these days goes to a 50-50, so jack might make it a 49-51 in our favour. Better in front of goal/up forward compared to the rest.

So what do we do?

As gifted as TDK is, he would give us a HUGE return via trade (or FA compo) that may benefit the team more than he does. And i say TEAM as in structure/balance.....not in what he is capable himself.

Think of it this way....
Pittonet as #1 ruck with Jack or Mirkov as backup is very similar (potentially slightly worse) than Pittonet with TDK as backup.
BUT
if we moved on TDK, we could get a first rounder back (if not more).
So...
Pittonet with Jack or Mirkov + 1st rounder is much better than Pittonet with TDK.

So while i love TDK and what he has to offer.....its not quite a good fit with the rest of our list/team.
If we didn't have Charlie, Harry or Jack (or even Mirkov)....he'd be much more important to our team balance.

Re: Ruck & Roll (Pittonet VS De Koning VS Markov)

Reply #8 – February 06, 2023, 08:16:30 pm

Quote from: kruddler – on February 06, 2023, 05:57:49 pm

Pittonet is still underrated. His ruckwork is elite. He plays better as a ruck, rather than a backup KPP. Let him ruck and grind down his opponent.

TDK is great as a ruck in small bursts. Can jump over most and take a mark around the ground. If he was opposed to Pittonet though, he'd struggle as he'd get worn down by the aggressive style he plays. So we need to find TDK a backup spot. We have 2 coleman medalists in our forward half already, not much use for him there (and along with Jack) makes us too tall.

Mirkov (no 'a' in Mirkov) is in the mold of TDK, athletic and 'jumpy'....but has some extra height, although is lacking in body size. He could become a bit of a Mason Cox type for us who has height to match it with everyone, plus an ability to jump. If he can kick a goal, he could become better than TDK.

Jack Silvagni is a capable backup that adds grunt. He won't necessarily win you hitouts, but he is an improvement on the rest when the ball hits the ground. Most ruckwork these days goes to a 50-50, so jack might make it a 49-51 in our favour. Better in front of goal/up forward compared to the rest.

So what do we do?

As gifted as TDK is, he would give us a HUGE return via trade (or FA compo) that may benefit the team more than he does. And i say TEAM as in structure/balance.....not in what he is capable himself.

Think of it this way....
Pittonet as #1 ruck with Jack or Mirkov as backup is very similar (potentially slightly worse) than Pittonet with TDK as backup.
BUT
if we moved on TDK, we could get a first rounder back (if not more).
So...
Pittonet with Jack or Mirkov + 1st rounder is much better than Pittonet with TDK.

So while i love TDK and what he has to offer.....its not quite a good fit with the rest of our list/team.
If we didn't have Charlie, Harry or Jack (or even Mirkov)....he'd be much more important to our team balance.

At the moment pittonet is our only proven ruck.

TDK is a forward that can ruck rather than a ruckman that can go forward from what I saw of him. Loves a mark more than a ruck contest. He doesn't finish well enough as a forward.

Lemmy is the wild card.

Mirkov is unproven, and if tdk and pitto were both unavailable id be using young and jsos as my rucks based on what I've seen.

Jsos got found out a bit later last season. Like Grigg these things might work once or twice but teams are going to plan better for it next year and if we roll jsos through as a ruck option im going to say that it will be less effective than it was in 2022.

Re: Ruck & Roll (Pittonet VS De Koning VS Markov)

Reply #9 – February 06, 2023, 10:20:21 pm

Quote from: kruddler – on February 06, 2023, 05:45:32 pm

You say what now?!

Young and Weitering.

....and....Durdin (if he can stay fit)......Kemp, Marchbank, McGovern, Akieu are NOT key defenders.

The club says they are (not McGovern) and that’s where they play.

Lemmey is nominally a key forward but has played as a key defender in the SANFL. Silvagni could also play as a key defender if necessary.

Another KPP would be handy but I’d prefer another ~~winger~~ ruck, particularly if they can double as a KPP.

Re: Ruck & Roll (Pittonet VS De Koning VS Markov)

Reply #10 – February 07, 2023, 12:00:08 am

The club can call them ham sandwiches but who’s going to rushing the buffet ?
They are 3rd talls/pinch hitting as KPD at best.

Re: Ruck & Roll (Pittonet VS De Koning VS Markov)

Reply #11 – February 07, 2023, 09:41:36 am

The question for our rucks is what is the combination going to be. We went to Adelaide with Pitto TDK and JSOS and look where that got us. We lacked a bit of pace on the the outside last season so having too many big guys isn't going to be helpful in this regard. I think JSOS is in our best 22,but where does he fit if TDK and Pitto play. I thought the biggest problem under Teague was getting the best team on the park. The best 22 players weren't the best 22 team. This is something Voss needs to address as he got it wrong in Adelaide last year.

Re: Ruck & Roll (Pittonet VS De Koning VS Markov)

Reply #12 – February 19, 2023, 05:14:39 pm

Don't want to see TDK leave as he is going to explode in 1-2 years but would take a top 10 pick for him.

Re: Ruck & Roll (Pittonet VS De Koning VS Markov)

Reply #13 – February 19, 2023, 06:09:09 pm

Horses for courses in the ruck, some weeks you need two specialists, other weeks just one and a part timer.
Wouldn't mess with Young as a ruckman and just leave him down back.
Not sure why we have this obsession of trying to turn players into something else when they are succeeding very well in their original position especially given KP backs are like gold and hard to find.
Pittonet and Mirkov would be two stiffs playing together imo....neither have an impact anywhere else other than the ruck and we would become less mobile and have less options. Pittonet and TDK would be my ideal pairing when we need two ruckman and I'd be preferencing TDK as my No 1 when we use the solo option.
Ruckman as Geelong showed don't have to be high quality big contract players so if TDK gets offered megabucks I'd let him go and use the trade scenario to fix other list problems and look around for another ruckman like Bryan who is stuck behind Draper at Essendon.
You don't pay ruckman big dollars imho and as Stanley of Geelong showed you just need a athletic competitor who can run around the ground and work in combo with a swingman like Blicavs and give you options.

Re: Ruck & Roll (Pittonet VS De Koning VS Markov)

Reply #14 – February 19, 2023, 06:22:35 pm

Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on February 19, 2023, 06:09:09 pm

Horses for courses in the ruck, some weeks you need two specialists, other weeks just one and a part timer.

Assuming they stay fit, I predict we'll find a bit of MC rotation going on this season, with TDK, SoJ and perhaps Durdin getting mixed opportunities as Pitto's back up.

I'm pretty sure if fit Pitto is physically still the No.1, but I'd expect TDK to go past him in the next season or two assuming TDK stays a bluebagger!