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Topic: AFL Rd 2 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong (Read 17717 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: AFL Rd 2 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong

Reply #150 –
TDK was great in that aspect on Thursday, reminded me a bit of Kreuzer.
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: AFL Rd 2 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong

Reply #151 –
Late to the party but was over there last week and at the game on Thursday night! Wow....the noise was deafening from a very pro-Carlton crowd. Cameron nearly got them over the line and we couldn't get a match up for him in the end....but everyone else lifted in that last quarter when we were under the hammer. Our 3rd quarter was as exciting as some of those early games last year...and against quality opposition too.

A few observations...apologies if covered elsewhere in this thread:

1. The TDK/Pittonet combination needs to stay, barring injury. They worked well together and TDK going forward at times will test a lot of backlines. It also frees up Silvagni to roam the forward line as a mobile 3rd forward without the added pressure of then having to ruck at times.
2. I was sceptical about playing the 4 smalls....Durdin, Motlop, Fisher and Owies....but they all chipped in and hit the scoreboard. Motlop was really good early on and goes in hard. Great to have Durdin back and Owies was clinical in front of goals. They combined for 6 goals.
3. Like most, wasn't sure about Ed getting games this year but his last quarter was huge when the pressure was on.
4. Acres was average at best last week, but geez he played well and took some good contested marks. The combination of him and Hollands looks really promising. I was sitting on the wing about 20 rows from the fence and Holland's running was impressive....he was everywhere in the first quarter.
5. In 2 games, Cowan looks more reliable by foot and more composed than Plowman already. Hard to see Plowman coming back in any time soon.
6. Our backline is really building nicely. Saad is elite and has proved that first round pick was well worth giving up to get him.

Hypothetical question.....if both Hewett AND Walsh were fit this week, who would be the unlucky 2 players going out? McGovern was ordinary again at times on Thursday night, but structurally he's important down back so I doubt he'd go out for one of them unless they think Docherty can play as the third tall defender and not go through the midfield. And I wouldn't be rushing Jack Martin back anytime soon either.

Re: AFL Rd 2 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong

Reply #152 –
Coaches' votes :

9 - Jeremy Cameron (GEEL)
9 - Charlie Curnow (CARL)
6 - Adam Saad (CARL)
2 - Ed Curnow (CARL)
2 - Jacob Weitering (CARL)
1 - Blake Acres (CARL)
1 - Isaac Smith (GEEL)

Re: AFL Rd 2 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong

Reply #153 –
Quote from: madbluboy – on
By what measure do you actually think Silvagni is performing well in the ruck?
Not sure i ever said he was performing well.

He is adequate.

In such a specialist position it hurts you if you can't 'hide' extra rucks in other positions, he solves that problem.

I'm happy to sacrifice a handful of hitouts to advantage (if its even that much) for the benefits an extra midfielder gives us for team balance.

Re: AFL Rd 2 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong

Reply #154 –
I just genuinely think he's a bit flat, and not at his best at the moment....so that's why I'm thinking his spot may be in danger.
Not to say he can't turn that around.
It will depend on the roles he's given... and it could turn around very quickly.

Re: AFL Rd 2 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong

Reply #155 –
Quote from: Lods – on
I just genuinely think he's a bit flat, and not at his best at the moment....so that's why I'm thinking his spot may be in danger.
Not to say he can't turn that around.
It will depend on the roles he's given... and it could turn around very quickly.

He is not at his best....but there are plenty in that boat.

Across 2 games....
-------- Dsp-M-M50-I50-T-G.B.-GA-1%- Clg-TOG
Player A - 18 - 6 - 2 - 4 - 3 - 1.2 - 2 - 4- 4 - 75.5%
Player B - 23 -16 - 3 - 7 - 2 - 2.3 - 1 - 5 - 5 - 93.5%
Player C - 23 - 3 - 1 - 3 - 4 - 4.1 - 1 - 0 - 8 - 72%
Player D - 22 - 7 - 3 - 3 - 3 - 1.0 - 1 - 1 - 4 - 76.5%

Who deserves to be dropped?
Who deserves to be persisted with?
Who is borderline?

FWIW, all 4 players are forwards.

Re: AFL Rd 2 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong

Reply #156 –
For those playing at home....

A: Silvagni
B: McKay
C: Owies
D: Motlop

Re: AFL Rd 2 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong

Reply #157 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
Not sure i ever said he was performing well.

He is adequate.

In such a specialist position it hurts you if you can't 'hide' extra rucks in other positions, he solves that problem.

I'm happy to sacrifice a handful of hitouts to advantage (if its even that much) for the benefits an extra midfielder gives us for team balance.

He's not an extra midfielder
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: AFL Rd 2 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong

Reply #158 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
Not sure i ever said he was performing well.

He is adequate.

In such a specialist position it hurts you if you can't 'hide' extra rucks in other positions, he solves that problem.

I'm happy to sacrifice a handful of hitouts to advantage (if its even that much) for the benefits an extra midfielder gives us for team balance.

He's not an extra midfielder
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: AFL Rd 2 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong

Reply #159 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
He is not at his best....but there are plenty in that boat.

Across 2 games....
-------- Dsp-M-M50-I50-T-G.B.-GA-1%- Clg-TOG
Player A - 18 - 6 - 2 - 4 - 3 - 1.2 - 2 - 4- 4 - 75.5%
Player B - 23 -16 - 3 - 7 - 2 - 2.3 - 1 - 5 - 5 - 93.5%
Player C - 23 - 3 - 1 - 3 - 4 - 4.1 - 1 - 0 - 8 - 72%
Player D - 22 - 7 - 3 - 3 - 3 - 1.0 - 1 - 1 - 4 - 76.5%

Who deserves to be dropped?
Who deserves to be persisted with?
Who is borderline?

FWIW, all 4 players are forwards.

Yep, but all have different roles and responsibilities.
So the stats are just a part of the story.
It will be interesting to see who, if any, does go out.
If Hewett doesn't come up, it may be no change.

Re: AFL Rd 2 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong

Reply #160 –
Quote from: madbluboy – on
He's not an extra midfielder
Cmon mate, follow along.

2 rucks + Jack + 21 others
1 ruck + jack + extra midfielder + 21 others.

Using Jack as the second ruckman allows us to play an extra midfielder.

Look at the ins/outs from last game

As far as team balance went it was....
Durdin in for Martin
Pittonet in for Hewitt.

The second ruck took the spot of the extra midfielder.
We tired in the last quarter because we lost that extra midfielder.
We almost lost the game because we didn't have that extra midfielder.

 

Re: AFL Rd 2 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong

Reply #161 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
We tired in the last quarter because we lost that extra midfielder.
We almost lost the game because we didn't have that extra midfielder.

We lost Jack, a forward, who had little impact at three quarter time and gained O'Brien with a bit of run (but still not a great impact).
An extra midfielder may have been handy (who!!), but there were probably a few factors in the Geelong surge, some mental (I expected them to come at us, and the players probably had a few doubts when it got close.)
Anyway in the end we won, so it worked OK.

Re: AFL Rd 2 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong

Reply #162 –
Quote from: Lods – on
Yep, but all have different roles and responsibilities.
So the stats are just a part of the story.
It will be interesting to see who, if any, does go out.
If Hewett doesn't come up, it may be no change.


Also, it should be noted that Jack only had 5 possessions in week 1 as 2nd ruck.
His 13 disposals this week was =most from that group....yet people are criticising his output.
If his 2 behinds ended up being 2 goals, he'd get in the votes!

Stats are part of it.
Other part is peoples perception.....thats what i'm questioning....their perception.

In terms of output....it was comparable to the other 2 rucks (obviously hitouts/clearances aside).
In terms of output....it was comparable to 3 other forwards.

I'm not saying he has been in great form. I'm not saying he is above scrutiny. I'm not saying that its impossible for him to be dropped.
I just think the criticism towards him seems a little bit over the top.

He would probably be one of the front runners to be dropped this week.....and i think it'll be a mistake if he does....but it shouldn't matter against GWS (i hope)

Last time we dropped Jack, we got thumped, we lacked heart and everyone said it was a mistake and he should never be dropped again. Maybe i'm the only one that remembers that.

Re: AFL Rd 2 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong

Reply #163 –
Quote from: Lods – on
We lost Jack, a forward, who had little impact at three quarter time and gained O'Brien with a bit of run (but still not a great impact).
An extra midfielder may have been handy (who!!), but there were probably a few factors in the Geelong surge, some mental (I expected them to come at us, and the players probably had a few doubts when it got close.)
Anyway in the end we won, so it worked OK.

Maybe we should've played Dow?
Maybe we should've played a back and let Docherty play midfield?

Little impact? Possibly, but same impact as a few others who played the whole game. As i said, if his 2 behinds were 2 goals, he'd be a hero.

Obrien could've had the same impact (albeit not much) when we swapped out some other alternative.
BUT....the rest of our midfielders would've been fresher as the load would've been spread across another body prior to all of that.

So because we won, we don't need to review what went right and what went wrong?

Re: AFL Rd 2 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Geelong

Reply #164 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
Stats are part of it.
Other part is peoples perception.....thats what i'm questioning....their perception.

That's probably the heart of the disagreement
You're questioning the perception.
Others are questioning the importance you're assigning to the stats.
Both are part of the story.
How we see the game is often different to the statistical output and equally as valid (running to position, manning up, contesting, missing marks they'd normally take, applying pressure).

The reality is Jack's probably in the frame to be missing if we have another option.