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Re: Best 22 for 2014

Reply #60 –
Quote from: cookie2 – on
Quote from: MilkIt – on
Quote from: Baggers – on
Quote from: cookie2 – on
@Baggers
Look, you've probably seen a lot more of him than I have. I have actually seen him kick a few good goals for the 1s when he looked fine and really connected. However, this does not seem to be a consistently repeatable process atm, which does suggest the problem is all in his mind.

Exactly.

I disagree. His technique is terrible. His ball drop doesn't sync with his steps, he almost drops the ball with two hands and then swings his leg from right to left through his kick.

I'm no expert MI, but doesn't good technique require strong concentration - keeping your mind on what you're trying to do? So a lapse in concentration means technique suffers. Maybe if he could maintain concentration then his kicking would be a lot better?

I think any action like kicking needs to be second nature and what feels comfortable. It should basically be executed WITHOUT concentration. At this stage his poor technique is how he feels comfortable kicking and to re-work it would be like learning to kick on the left foot. Muscle memory and all that.

 

Re: Best 22 for 2014

Reply #61 –
@MI
I hear that MI, but I was thinking more on the aspects of maintaining focus on the end result being sought, shutting out distractions and having a mental picture of the ball sailing through, to the exclusion of all other thoughts etc. etc.? Then the kicking should take care of itself in the way you describe.
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: Best 22 for 2014

Reply #62 –
Quote from: cookie2 – on
@MI
I hear that MI, but I was thinking more on the aspects of maintaining focus on the end result being sought, shutting out distractions and having a mental picture of the ball sailing through, to the exclusion of all other thoughts etc. etc.? Then the kicking should take care of itself in the way you describe.

I think the mental approach and kicking action are two separate entities. I know confidence can play a big part in a footballer's game (e.g. Henderson) but all the confidence in the world can't change a natural flaw in a player's game, and focussing on the end result before you've laid it onto your boot is the wrong way to go about it imo.

I played a round of golf on the weekend and for a long time now I've been slicing my drives. I noticed that I was bringing my hips through earlier than my arms and when I focussed on bringing my hips through later every shot was straight down the fairway. It felt unnatural and I had to have complete focus on what I was doing but that is what made the difference. I was under no external pressure what so ever. What I need to do is practice until it is a natural part of my game.

I think Levi has a similar problem to his kicking.

Re: Best 22 for 2014

Reply #63 –
Quote from: MilkIt – on
Quote from: cookie2 – on
@MI
I hear that MI, but I was thinking more on the aspects of maintaining focus on the end result being sought, shutting out distractions and having a mental picture of the ball sailing through, to the exclusion of all other thoughts etc. etc.? Then the kicking should take care of itself in the way you describe.

I think the mental approach and kicking action are two separate entities. I know confidence can play a big part in a footballer's game (e.g. Henderson) but all the confidence in the world can't change a natural flaw in a player's game, and focussing on the end result before you've laid it onto your boot is the wrong way to go about it imo.

I played a round of golf on the weekend and for a long time now I've been slicing my drives. I noticed that I was bringing my hips through earlier than my arms and when I focussed on bringing my hips through later every shot was straight down the fairway. It felt unnatural and I had to have complete focus on what I was doing but that is what made the difference. I was under no external pressure what so ever. What I need to do is practice until it is a natural part of my game.

I think Levi has a similar problem to his kicking.

He could start by lowering his ball drop to just inside the earths atmosphere that'll help.
Secondly, from a fellow golf tragic it's good to hear you describe the remedy to your slicing as unnatural in what has to be the most unnatural sport on earth!
The Ox is slow but I'm running out of patience.

Re: Best 22 for 2014

Reply #64 –
Quote from: Sexybronco – on
Quote from: MilkIt – on
Quote from: cookie2 – on
@MI
I hear that MI, but I was thinking more on the aspects of maintaining focus on the end result being sought, shutting out distractions and having a mental picture of the ball sailing through, to the exclusion of all other thoughts etc. etc.? Then the kicking should take care of itself in the way you describe.

I think the mental approach and kicking action are two separate entities. I know confidence can play a big part in a footballer's game (e.g. Henderson) but all the confidence in the world can't change a natural flaw in a player's game, and focussing on the end result before you've laid it onto your boot is the wrong way to go about it imo.

I played a round of golf on the weekend and for a long time now I've been slicing my drives. I noticed that I was bringing my hips through earlier than my arms and when I focussed on bringing my hips through later every shot was straight down the fairway. It felt unnatural and I had to have complete focus on what I was doing but that is what made the difference. I was under no external pressure what so ever. What I need to do is practice until it is a natural part of my game.

I think Levi has a similar problem to his kicking.

He could start by lowering his ball drop to just inside the earths atmosphere that'll help.
Secondly, from a fellow golf tragic it's good to hear you describe the remedy to your slicing as unnatural in what has to be the most unnatural sport on earth!

'Comfortable' is probably a wiser choice of words.  ;) Maybe Levi can swing his hips through later. It made my ball go straight. :D

Re: Best 22 for 2014

Reply #65 –
@MI
I just hope we can sort Levi out - hips and all MI. If he can't fix his kicking by end of 2014 I think he'll be gorn unfortunately. From what you say he sounds like he's got a lot of work to do but Baggers seems to think he can kick OK if he sets his mind to it - we'll see I guess.
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: Best 22 for 2014

Reply #66 –
Collingwood at the forefront once again by hiring Trav Cloke a personal goal-kicking coach. Cloke's kicking is much better than it used to be...but still got improvement left. Kudos. We should be doing the same thing with Levi...he is the future of our club.

Re: Best 22 for 2014

Reply #67 –
Quote from: Gozza – on
Collingwood at the forefront once again by hiring Trav Cloke a personal goal-kicking coach. Cloke's kicking is much better than it used to be...but still got improvement left. Kudos. We should be doing the same thing with Levi...he is the future of our club.

Forgive me if this is inaccurate but Cloke's kicking issues were not technique but, radar and pressure oriented were they not?

Its almost a confidence thing and still hurts him today.  Once he gets the yips he is done.

Levi's kicking is a bit like Franklins and he can be a mixed proposition even today.  The one thing i have noticed with Levi is the further out he is the more chance he is of converting which suggests that he puts more effort into his kicking from further out.  Whether or not that is the problem is a different kettle of fish.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Best 22 for 2014

Reply #68 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on
Quote from: Gozza – on
Collingwood at the forefront once again by hiring Trav Cloke a personal goal-kicking coach. Cloke's kicking is much better than it used to be...but still got improvement left. Kudos. We should be doing the same thing with Levi...he is the future of our club.

Forgive me if this is inaccurate but Cloke's kicking issues were not technique but, radar and pressure oriented were they not?

Its almost a confidence thing and still hurts him today.  Once he gets the yips he is done.

Levi's kicking is a bit like Franklins and he can be a mixed proposition even today.  The one thing i have noticed with Levi is the further out he is the more chance he is of converting which suggests that he puts more effort into his kicking from further out.  Whether or not that is the problem is a different kettle of fish.

Cloke is a pretty good kick from outside 50m as well, but they usually don't pause and take a set shot from there. They usually play on straight away and launch it with little build up and thought. I think the bigger guys have trouble kicking because there's a bigger drop from hand to foot and more chance of the ball coming off its line.

We could probably do with a kicking coach to help the new Irish boys out and Levi as well. I'd be getting everyone to practice kicking on their non-preferred and a coach would also help out there.

Re: Best 22 for 2014

Reply #69 –
What Cloke's problem is/was is irrelevant in my opinion. The point is, Collingwood have invested heavily in the football department to provide their key forward with the personal coaching that he needs and fix the problem. Though as I said, his kicking had improved dramatically over the last couple of years, but the Magpies saw fit the other day to hire a coach to further improve it. 
 
Levi needs one on one coaching and plenty of time dedicated to it. Anyone who has played footy here would know that pre-seasons can be dominated by running, and very little ball-use. That's fine so Levi must want to fix his kicking by putting in extra hours on the track. Someone needs to speak to him and say that 2014 could be his breakout year, and with the help of a personal coach, he can achieve it with his own determination. 
 

Re: Best 22 for 2014

Reply #70 –
Quote from: Gozza – on
What Cloke's problem is/was is irrelevant in my opinion. The point is, Collingwood have invested heavily in the football department to provide their key forward with the personal coaching that he needs and fix the problem. Though as I said, his kicking had improved dramatically over the last couple of years, but the Magpies saw fit the other day to hire a coach to further improve it. 
 
Levi needs one on one coaching and plenty of time dedicated to it. Anyone who has played footy here would know that pre-seasons can be dominated by running, and very little ball-use. That's fine so Levi must want to fix his kicking by putting in extra hours on the track. Someone needs to speak to him and say that 2014 could be his breakout year, and with the help of a personal coach, he can achieve it with his own determination.

I think the way workloads are formulated these days he may have to sacrifice another area of his training (which I know sounds ridiculous) as to not overload and reduce his recovery time. I would be happy for him, for example, to replace ruck work altogether with kicking practice as I think a genuine key forward should be doing anyway.

Re: Best 22 for 2014

Reply #71 –
Quote from: MilkIt – on
Quote from: Sexybronco – on
Quote from: MilkIt – on
Quote from: cookie2 – on
@MI
I hear that MI, but I was thinking more on the aspects of maintaining focus on the end result being sought, shutting out distractions and having a mental picture of the ball sailing through, to the exclusion of all other thoughts etc. etc.? Then the kicking should take care of itself in the way you describe.

I think the mental approach and kicking action are two separate entities. I know confidence can play a big part in a footballer's game (e.g. Henderson) but all the confidence in the world can't change a natural flaw in a player's game, and focussing on the end result before you've laid it onto your boot is the wrong way to go about it imo.

I played a round of golf on the weekend and for a long time now I've been slicing my drives. I noticed that I was bringing my hips through earlier than my arms and when I focussed on bringing my hips through later every shot was straight down the fairway. It felt unnatural and I had to have complete focus on what I was doing but that is what made the difference. I was under no external pressure what so ever. What I need to do is practice until it is a natural part of my game.

I think Levi has a similar problem to his kicking.

He could start by lowering his ball drop to just inside the earths atmosphere that'll help.
Secondly, from a fellow golf tragic it's good to hear you describe the remedy to your slicing as unnatural in what has to be the most unnatural sport on earth!

'Comfortable' is probably a wiser choice of words.  ;) Maybe Levi can swing his hips through later. It made my ball go straight. :D
Looking at Watson's change in physique combined with the recruitment of Everitt has made Casboult surplus. I doubt he will get a gig short of the inevitable injuries to Kreuzer, Waite, Warnock or Jammo get their inevitable injuries. Even then he has to deal with Wood on the list which makes Casboult less attractive as a 2nd ruck option which I think is his best chance at a game.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Best 22 for 2014

Reply #72 –
Quote from: LP – on
Quote from: MilkIt – on
Quote from: Sexybronco – on
Quote from: MilkIt – on
Quote from: cookie2 – on
@MI
I hear that MI, but I was thinking more on the aspects of maintaining focus on the end result being sought, shutting out distractions and having a mental picture of the ball sailing through, to the exclusion of all other thoughts etc. etc.? Then the kicking should take care of itself in the way you describe.

I think the mental approach and kicking action are two separate entities. I know confidence can play a big part in a footballer's game (e.g. Henderson) but all the confidence in the world can't change a natural flaw in a player's game, and focussing on the end result before you've laid it onto your boot is the wrong way to go about it imo.

I played a round of golf on the weekend and for a long time now I've been slicing my drives. I noticed that I was bringing my hips through earlier than my arms and when I focussed on bringing my hips through later every shot was straight down the fairway. It felt unnatural and I had to have complete focus on what I was doing but that is what made the difference. I was under no external pressure what so ever. What I need to do is practice until it is a natural part of my game.

I think Levi has a similar problem to his kicking.

He could start by lowering his ball drop to just inside the earths atmosphere that'll help.
Secondly, from a fellow golf tragic it's good to hear you describe the remedy to your slicing as unnatural in what has to be the most unnatural sport on earth!

'Comfortable' is probably a wiser choice of words.  ;) Maybe Levi can swing his hips through later. It made my ball go straight. :D
Looking at Watson's change in physique combined with the recruitment of Everitt has made Casboult surplus. I doubt he will get a gig short of the inevitable injuries to Kreuzer, Waite, Warnock or Jammo get their inevitable injuries. Even then he has to deal with Wood on the list which makes Casboult less attractive as a 2nd ruck option which I think is his best chance at a game.

Watson is pretty much guaranteed first/second tall when he gets back imo

Re: Best 22 for 2014

Reply #73 –
Quote from: LP – on
Quote from: MilkIt – on
Quote from: Sexybronco – on
Quote from: MilkIt – on
Quote from: cookie2 – on
@MI
I hear that MI, but I was thinking more on the aspects of maintaining focus on the end result being sought, shutting out distractions and having a mental picture of the ball sailing through, to the exclusion of all other thoughts etc. etc.? Then the kicking should take care of itself in the way you describe.

I think the mental approach and kicking action are two separate entities. I know confidence can play a big part in a footballer's game (e.g. Henderson) but all the confidence in the world can't change a natural flaw in a player's game, and focussing on the end result before you've laid it onto your boot is the wrong way to go about it imo.

I played a round of golf on the weekend and for a long time now I've been slicing my drives. I noticed that I was bringing my hips through earlier than my arms and when I focussed on bringing my hips through later every shot was straight down the fairway. It felt unnatural and I had to have complete focus on what I was doing but that is what made the difference. I was under no external pressure what so ever. What I need to do is practice until it is a natural part of my game.

I think Levi has a similar problem to his kicking.

He could start by lowering his ball drop to just inside the earths atmosphere that'll help.
Secondly, from a fellow golf tragic it's good to hear you describe the remedy to your slicing as unnatural in what has to be the most unnatural sport on earth!

'Comfortable' is probably a wiser choice of words.  ;) Maybe Levi can swing his hips through later. It made my ball go straight. :D
Looking at Watson's change in physique combined with the recruitment of Everitt has made Casboult surplus. I doubt he will get a gig short of the inevitable injuries to Kreuzer, Waite, Warnock or Jammo get their inevitable injuries. Even then he has to deal with Wood on the list which makes Casboult less attractive as a 2nd ruck option which I think is his best chance at a game.

We need to put time into Casboult as a forward. Great mark. Play him deep in the square, and for a lengthy period. He can't be expected to improve as a player if he's not given enough time in the firsts.
 

Re: Best 22 for 2014

Reply #74 –
Quote from: Gozza – on
What Cloke's problem is/was is irrelevant in my opinion. The point is, Collingwood have invested heavily in the football department to provide their key forward with the personal coaching that he needs and fix the problem. Though as I said, his kicking had improved dramatically over the last couple of years, but the Magpies saw fit the other day to hire a coach to further improve it. 
 
Levi needs one on one coaching and plenty of time dedicated to it. Anyone who has played footy here would know that pre-seasons can be dominated by running, and very little ball-use. That's fine so Levi must want to fix his kicking by putting in extra hours on the track. Someone needs to speak to him and say that 2014 could be his breakout year, and with the help of a personal coach, he can achieve it with his own determination.

I agree with what you have said. Levi needs to be mentored one on one and taught how to kick. He also needs to get his endurance working for him. Rowe needs to be taught how to present and work on his endurance also. Henderson can't do it all alone in the forward 50m.
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