AFL Rd 6 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs St Kilda

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Re: AFL Rd 6 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs St Kilda

Reply #105 – April 23, 2023, 09:49:47 pm

Quote from: kruddler – on April 23, 2023, 09:16:14 pm

Saints are well coached. We knew that.

You need to move the ball fast, long and accurate to beat them. We didn't have Docherty and Saad today who are our best at that by a country mile. I'd like to come up against the saints later in the year with those 2 playing and see the difference. They were able to flood back chop off the space and force us to play the possession game. As soon as we stuffed one up, they swooped and scored.

That was the difference.

We had a shocker in front of goal. Easily 5 shots missed we'd kick most weeks. I think it was acres who chose not to toe poke one through from the goal square, instead letting it dribble past him....and the goals...in for a point.

But, its not all doom and gloom. We played poor, against the top side, and absolutely dominated them in the first half in every area except the scoreboard. Gives us something to work from, and we'll get better as a result.
I'd rather find out this now, than come finals time.

I'm going to agree with Kruddler.
It's early days but our seasons probably at a bit of a fork in the road.
How we handle the weeks leading up to the bye rounds will tell a bit of a tale about our coaches and their ability to rectify the issues holding us back at the moment.

We've come up against the form team of the competition after 6 rounds.
We've been all over them in a lot of the general play in the first half of the game.

Individuals are showing some good signs,
Some of the newer players on the list are especially promising and look to be set for long careers.
We go off a bit about McKay and his costly brain fades but he's been strong in the air and presenting well up around the wing area as well as in the forward half.
The midfield is getting a lot of the ball.
Walsh has had his two weeks 'easing'

into the season and is now back to normal

But there is still lots of room for improvement.
There is a group on the fringe who are probably looking at their last season as Carlton players.
We are falling down in both execution and decision making.
You would expect those things to improve as the season progresses, and if we have a bit of fortune with injuries we may do a reverse 2022 and come home much stronger in the second half of the year.

I was much happier with the effort this week than I was with the effort last week.
A word of caution though.
Outclassed and outscored, West Coast came with a pretty good effort against Port.
They had one bad quarter where things fell to pieces but it was fairly even apart from that.
Next week back at home for them will be a challenge for us.
It may actually be an opportunity to get a bit of confidence and system back, but take if for granted and it could also have the opposite effect.

Re: AFL Rd 6 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs St Kilda

Reply #106 – April 23, 2023, 10:54:16 pm

We have to accept that unless we change some of the things we are doing, we are probably 6-7th at best, and certainly not ready for the really pointy end of the season.

Here's a few leftish-field ideas to try and get our side on an upward trajectory.

(1) For a side that boasts the last two Coleman medallists, our scoring this year has been abysmal. Put Kemp as a mobile marking option in the F50 - they tried it for a while a couple of years back, and he did not look out of place. Alterrnatively, play Cripps more in F50 as that mobile target.

(2) Given # 1, play Harry as a true centre half forward, getting marks on the wing etc. That is where he has looked the most effective this year.

(3) Binns in. Maybe even give Dow a go. We are so slow, I would give anyone with leg speed a crack.

(4) Give Cincotta, Saad and McGovern (perhaps even Boyd) absolute license to run off half-back, with defense as a secondary consideration (especially when Doc is back).

(5) Get TDK and Mirkov in tandem off the bench. Pittonet is just too slow.

There's a start.

Re: AFL Rd 6 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs St Kilda

Reply #107 – April 23, 2023, 11:00:53 pm

Quote from: tonyo – on April 23, 2023, 10:54:16 pm

We have to accept that unless we change some of the things we are doing, we are probably 6-7th at best, and certainly not ready for the really pointy end of the season.

Here's a few leftish-field ideas to try and get our side on an upward trajectory.

(1) For a side that boasts the last two Coleman medallists, our scoring this year has been abysmal. Put Kemp as a mobile marking option in the F50 - they tried it for a while a couple of years back, and he did not look out of place. Alterrnatively, play Cripps more in F50 as that mobile target.

(2) Given # 1, play Harry as a true centre half forward, getting marks on the wing etc. That is where he has looked the most effective this year.

(3) Binns in. Maybe even give Dow a go. We are so slow, I would give anyone with leg speed a crack.

(4) Give Cincotta, Saad and McGovern (perhaps even Boyd) absolute license to run off half-back, with defense as a secondary consideration (especially when Doc is back).

(5) Get TDK and Mirkov in tandem off the bench. Pittonet is just too slow.

There's a start.

agree with what you have written except H at CHF, he isnt footy smart enough to play the CHF role. He can get up the ground and clunk a mark, thats when the trouble begins.

Re: AFL Rd 6 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs St Kilda

Reply #108 – April 23, 2023, 11:02:58 pm

So here we are into what, our eighth year of a rebuild?

We all knew from being flogged by teams such as Hawthorn, year after year - but evidently not our recruiting team - that we needed to recruit players with excellent disposal skills, especially by foot.

What did we get? Maybe we can excuse our recruiting team to a certain extent because nobody wanted to come to Carlton, but they were quite happy to take on Williams with a known Achilles problem. Then we have Kemp, and we were told that it would be worth the wait of a year for him to recover from knee surgery because he would be our version of Darling of West Coast - and we are still awaiting for his arrival.

Then we have Dow. It was known that he had poor disposal foot skills prior to the draft but we gave up a first pick for him. And what did the recruiters see in Honey that made him worthy of recruiting?

We have an unbalanced list with too many players lacking the disposal skills necessary to be a serious contender for the flag.

It's the same old same old. We get possession of the ball but keep turning it over because of poor disposal skills.

We keep playing Harry in the forward line. Why? He showed today that he is worthy of the title of Harry the Heartbreaker. He simply cannot be relied upon to kick goals.

It seems we have also got the problem of players with dumb disposal syndrome anytime pressure is applied in the game.

Realistically, I don't think I will see another Carlton premiership in my lifetime.

Re: AFL Rd 6 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs St Kilda

Reply #109 – April 23, 2023, 11:26:29 pm

Small forwards aren't giving us enough...but I reckon we could also do with a Brad Pearce type fast leading medium sized forward to act as a foil to the Curnow/ McKay combination.

(One that isn't always injured.

)

Re: AFL Rd 6 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs St Kilda

Reply #110 – April 24, 2023, 02:30:25 am

I reckon the hype generated in the first half of last season is catching up to us. To me it looks like the is no intensity or urgency as the players have been told by people patting them on the back that they will make the finals. While we lost a few close games in the second half of last season since the bye round last year we appear to just going through the motions. As I said before the Richmond game if we are still relying on players such as Ed Curnow we are in trouble. When I look at our list containing cloggers like Boyd, Fogarty, S.Durdin etc who couldn’t get a game at their original clubs but we think are going to make a difference when they play for us I think all of us are caught up in the hype. Our list isn’t deep enough yet to challenge consistently with injuries.
Sick of playing blokes like O’Brien who have no heart or fierce competitiveness to attack the ball. If a few of our guys are having a bad day they put up the white flag with no desire to fight on crack in or even do the one percenters that might make it hard for the opposition.
We are playing with no heart

Re: AFL Rd 6 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs St Kilda

Reply #111 – April 24, 2023, 08:54:35 am

Quote from: Gointocarlton – on April 23, 2023, 08:54:36 pm

I dont think pace is the problem, when I strip it all back, the biggest problem is extremely poor disposal. Whether is its:
- General field kicking
- Kicks I50
- Goal kicking
I watch a lot of footy every week, I reckon we are one of the worst in comp for both deciding what to do with it and executing the disposal.

Voss intimated that in his presser.

Re: AFL Rd 6 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs St Kilda

Reply #112 – April 24, 2023, 09:04:52 am

We are not switched on like last year. Work rate is incomparable. Disposal inefficiency is a symptom of that as there is a lack of care.

Hope it isn't the same as with previous coaches. Play our best football under them year 1 them gets worse from there as the intensity and "want" drops off. Malthouse through to Teague have been the same. St.Kilda have been the same. Last year we were the most exciting to watch, ripping it out of stoppages, playing with dare and setting ourselves up. Our turnover game was much better last year. We're not even close to that this year.

Re: AFL Rd 6 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs St Kilda

Reply #113 – April 24, 2023, 09:12:15 am

Quote from: laj – on April 24, 2023, 09:04:52 am

We are not switched on like last year. Work rate is incomparable. Disposal inefficiency is a symptom of that as there is a lack of care.

Hope it isn't the same as with previous coaches. Play our best football under them year 1 them gets worse from there as the intensity and "want" drops off. Malthouse through to Teague have been the same. St.Kilda have been the same. Last year we were the most exciting to watch, ripping it out of stoppages, playing with dare and setting ourselves up. Our turnover game was much better last year. We're not even close to that this year.

Yep. There seems to be some kind of systemic malaise affecting the club that gets a hold on everyone who enters the gates. Looks like another very mediocre year in the offing unfortunately.

Re: AFL Rd 6 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs St Kilda

Reply #114 – April 24, 2023, 09:17:48 am

We worked our butts off yesterday. We were outplayed/outsmarted. The players can't give anymore. Blaming the lowest possession players on the ground and the substitute is primary school stuff.

Re: AFL Rd 6 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs St Kilda

Reply #115 – April 24, 2023, 09:19:38 am

Problem will be with West Coast being so poor is we will probably see an artificial improvement this week that will mask the problems we have until we play another decent team where we will get exposed again..

Re: AFL Rd 6 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs St Kilda

Reply #116 – April 24, 2023, 09:21:37 am

Quote from: Lods – on April 23, 2023, 11:26:29 pm

Small forwards aren't giving us enough...but I reckon we could also do with a Brad Pearce type fast leading medium sized forward to act as a foil to the Curnow/ McKay combination.

(One that isn't always injured. )

We would kick it over his head or at this feet.

Re: AFL Rd 6 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs St Kilda

Reply #117 – April 24, 2023, 09:22:45 am

Brand. What is ours? For the first 2 qtrs I think we saw it against the Aints. Well on top of a very good, in form, opponent. However...

...our forward line was inefficient and apart from H & Charlies, and occasionally JSOS, no-one presented other leading options for blokes up the field. Too much left to too few. As the game progressed this became more apparent. And when the heat came in the second half, it was only our two talls. JSOS lapsed into errors, critical errors that should not occur at this level and our small forwards, vanished. When that inevitable heat came later in the game (tiredness… more on that below), Fisher, small Durds & Mots failed to impose and create, but rather shrank. So, any wonder blokes up the field resorted to high kicks to our talls.

Had we been more efficient, nailing simple shots on goal, it would have provided scoreboard pressure and very importantly, confidence for all. Missed sitters sap confidence.

When I hear our coaching group and players talk, humility, empathy and mindfulness are often mentioned – all sound psychological ingredients. However, we must remember that our blokes, when it’s all boiled down, are warriors going into battle and should and must have fight and competitiveness addressed and implemented at an ‘above the shoulders’ level. We risk too much ‘nice’ when the before mentioned psychological ingredients become foremost. 120 minutes of a hunger for ruthless persistence in every contest must be the foremost to handle and want heat. We can’t and don’t hunger for heat. Too many shrink in the heat (e.g., Fisher, JSOS, small forwards) and errors ensue.

Cliques. Groups within groups. This results in out of form and even ‘not up to it’ blokes getting automatic selection based on reputation and/or being popular off field within one of these favoured groups or cliques.

Diet. Are our blokes too ‘carbed up?’ Latest research on carbs/sugars suggest strongly that this is not what it was once believed to be. When you have to pop caffeine tablets to get a lift (counter the tiredness brought on by sugars), you’re in trouble. Not to mention the long-term effects of caffeine on the body, but that’s a discussion for another day. For many folks meat and veggies (complex carbs, much better for the human body) work a treat. Some can handle high carbs but many can’t.

Just thoughts.

Re: AFL Rd 6 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs St Kilda

Reply #118 – April 24, 2023, 09:23:29 am

Quote from: madbluboy – on April 24, 2023, 09:17:48 am

We worked our butts off yesterday. We were outplayed/outsmarted. The players can't give anymore. Blaming the lowest possession players on the ground and the substitute is primary school stuff.

Its not about possession numbers, we blew StK out of the water in that regard, it was the poor quality of last kick into the fwd 50 that killed us....again.

Re: AFL Rd 6 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs St Kilda

Reply #119 – April 24, 2023, 09:29:24 am

Quote from: Gointocarlton – on April 24, 2023, 09:23:29 am

Its not about possession numbers, we blew StK out of the water in that regard, it was the poor quality of last kick into the fwd 50 that killed us....again.

It was poor all over the ground. Our poor efficiency has been masked by the 20 metre backward kicks.

Have a look on the AFL app at the possession heat map and that sums up the day.