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Topic: AFL Rd 21 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs St Kilda (Read 15869 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: AFL Rd 21 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs St Kilda

Reply #60
St Kilda were pretty good in the first half and like others I was thinking here we go again - should I stop watching now and do something useful?  We were OK, but entries into 50 were ordinary and they got a few easy goals.

We got smarter after half time and worked harder, which paid off.  St Kilda got tired, it seemed.

Commentators were pumping up Fish in the first quarter, made note of how quiet he was in the 2nd and treated him normally after that.

Players would be speaking to the line coaches on the eau de cologne, but it does look odd particularly with Vossy next to them.

Dow is pretty strong at the footy and can get it - hopefully he and his teammates get confidence out of that.  Rapt for him kicking that goal.

Charlie was obviously quiet, but still managed to do some very good things.  Plenty of contributors this week.  Be interesting if Boyd comes straight back in.

Commentary was OK when BT wasn't involved, when he was it went downhill quickly.  (As an aside, I was gardening and listening to SEN for Nth v Melb game - pleasanly surprised with no hyperbole - they were actually calling the game - we could tell what was happening,  so well done!)

Re: AFL Rd 21 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs St Kilda

Reply #61
Commentary was OK when BT wasn't involved, when he was it went downhill quickly. 

Agreed - although BT is less annoying when you turn the volume down. 

Wish he would give up trying to give 'expert commentary' on which way the ball will float or where the kicker should aim when kicking for goal - especially when playing under the roof - more often than not, I am content when their players miss and ours kick it in the right general direction.

Re: AFL Rd 21 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs St Kilda

Reply #62
AFL media
Great to see Acres in the top 10 👏🏼
Dow starring in the 9 things learned👏🏼
Well deserved. Take a bow.

I'm still adjusting to this Carlton positive media gig... I like it
Coming together is the beginning.
Keeping together is progress.
Working together is success.
Henry Ford.

Re: AFL Rd 21 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs St Kilda

Reply #63

Acres continues to impress. I commented at the start of the season that he would be a big recruit for us and give us plenty of improvement. Some knocks on his kicking from time to time but yesterday he was one of the best in the first half when not much was going right and kept it up in the second half. He was getting the ball at every position on the ground and the bigger body helps out without the likes of Walsh, Kennedy and Cerra not out there. The running goal to seal it was a brilliant individual effort. He works hard, covers a lot of ground and is solid overhead. I reckon most of his kicking woes occur because he is not very fast and is too easy to pressure when he tries to run with the ball.

Dow....his first half was riddled with the same panic disposals and dumb footy moments but to his credit, he stuck at it and was one of the reasons we lifted in the second half. Earned his spot.  Agreed; but I think he would be more effective if he were to develop his hand-passing because he is not quick when trying to dispose of it and not strong enough to break clear of 'would-be' tacklers.

Fisher...certainly his best game this year and one of the best he's played for us IMO. Agreed; he was played in a position that allowed him to use his speed and to kick without too much pressure.  Seems like the stint in the VFL might have been worthwhile but I will wait to see if he can reproduce the goods.  Even SPS managed to turn in an impressive game (sometimes two) in similar circumstances before reverting to type.


Re: AFL Rd 21 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs St Kilda

Reply #64
I think a lot of concern around the first half was related to our inability to handle the pressure that St Kilda brought.
It was error riddled.
Handballs to players under pressure, poor execution, miskicks, indecision... and we really weren't bringing our own pressure which has been a feature of our wins.

Lyon's planning was pretty good, just as an example, he was able to quote deatiled aspects of Curnow's season in his presser, so they sussed us out pretty thoroughly and his troops did the job pretty well for a half. Most things were working for them.
But it wasn't sustainable, and by the end of the game the St kilda players were shattered, beaten by an overwhelming force.
At that stage, the poor disposal and indecision disappeared because our players now had time and freedom and we looked much more like the team of the last six weeks.

Saints gave it their best shot...and it wasn't good enough, even against a depleted Carlton side.
They may struggle to get back from there.

I don't think there's a lot of negativity about the win, and especially the second half...but the first half we didn't cope as well as we have, and were in a bit of strife handling their pressure.

Excellent summary of key issues

Re: AFL Rd 21 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs St Kilda

Reply #65
I listened to the call on AFL Nation or was it ABC?? Anyways our own McClure gave the expert comments from what I could tell.

It was nothing short of hilarious towards the end. His excitement and passion for the old dark navy blues was palpable.

When asked if player A could do task B, he said yes - on repeat. He referred to the time remaining with a mix of nervousness and hope. In the last few minutes a commentator asked another question. He virtually said "don't talk to me right now" As a fellow Bluebagger who has shared the long journey into the drought, it was a blast listening along. Probably sounded like rubbish to Saints fans.

Needless to say after the siren Mark pulled it back and gave a very balanced thoughtful player and team assessments.

That beats listening to the BT BS every day of the week.
Coming together is the beginning.
Keeping together is progress.
Working together is success.
Henry Ford.

Re: AFL Rd 21 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs St Kilda

Reply #66
I listened to the call on AFL Nation or was it ABC?? Anyways our own McClure gave the expert comments from what I could tell.

It was nothing short of hilarious towards the end. His excitement and passion for the old dark navy blues was palpable.

When asked if player A could do task B, he said yes - on repeat. He referred to the time remaining with a mix of nervousness and hope. In the last few minutes a commentator asked another question. He virtually said "don't talk to me right now" As a fellow Bluebagger who has shared the long journey into the drought, it was a blast listening along. Probably sounded like rubbish to Saints fans.

Needless to say after the siren Mark pulled it back and gave a very balanced thoughtful player and team assessments.

That beats listening to the BT BS every day of the week.
I find Sellers both honest and brutal. For someone who is long retired, he knows the game well and is able to strip it down to the basics and how well you need to do them
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership

Re: AFL Rd 21 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs St Kilda

Reply #67
I find Sellers both honest and brutal. For someone who is long retired, he knows the game well and is able to strip it down to the basics and how well you need to do them

Indeed. He certainly knows football and isn't influenced by any of the nauseating boys club nonsense. He calls it as he sees it. Over the many years I've heard his brutal assessment of our list, and club more broadly. Sometimes made me cringe but he was never far from the mark, pardon the pun!

It was just so enjoyable to listen to his authentic navy blue view.

Go Blues
Coming together is the beginning.
Keeping together is progress.
Working together is success.
Henry Ford.

Re: AFL Rd 21 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs St Kilda

Reply #68
Mucher tougher circumstances yesterday, but I remain impressed with Motlop's progress, he didn't have it all his own way yet he didn't shy away from the contest.

Motlop in that form with that attitude, in combo with Owies, are miles ahead of the other options as far as I can tell.

I thought they were all pretty good in terms of attitude and effort, pretty sloppy early, but the heat was on and the pressure was high, I thought both sides burnt a lot of opportunities but we went up a gear in the 2nd half and it was the tell.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: AFL Rd 21 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs St Kilda

Reply #69
Mucher tougher circumstances yesterday, but I remain impressed with Motlop's progress, he didn't have it all his own way yet he didn't shy away from the contest.

Motlop in that form with that attitude, in combo with Owies, are miles ahead of the other options as far as I can tell.

I thought they were all pretty good in terms of attitude and effort, pretty sloppy early, but the heat was on and the pressure was high, I thought both sides burnt a lot of opportunities but we went up a gear in the 2nd half and it was the tell.
Said it before but Motlop has benefited with that run in the twos and some time in the middle, he hopefully develops into that Kossie Pickett style of player who can have a run onball in the seniors when we need a lift and some X factor, when he runs with the footy he really looks the part and I have liked his composure in the last few games.

Re: AFL Rd 21 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs St Kilda

Reply #70
I hope fans are starting to see why we need both Pitto and TDK.

How we manage them in the future will be critical to our success, if we'd only had one today Marshall wouldn't have just got the stats he probably would have got the chocolates as well! ;)

It's Pitto keeping up the physical pressure, that allows TDK to gain the momentum, no respite for the opposition.

I agree Hollands had a good game, but ignoring the result his direct opponent was probably the BoG.

We certainly do not NEED them both.
There is advantages to having them both.

However, this was never a question of need. It has always been a question of 'can we afford'.....to have them both in the team.
This has almost exclusively been with Harry and Charlie in the side at the same time....but partially with Jack as well....but he can play smaller so not quite the same thing.

The fact we don't have Harry available (and Jack) means we must play them both.
If we have both Harry and Jack available, playing both hurts our team balance.

The Carlton who has won 7 games in a row (it still feels weird saying that) has done so on the back of constant pressure (feels even weirder saying that!). It hasn't been because of a standout performance of a Cripps, or Charlie that has won us the game. It has been the 'team' that has won us the game.
This happens to largely coincide with Harry going down and us having to play 'smaller' by default.

Now whether you take Harry out, or 1 of the rucks out, the end result is basically the same. You are smaller, you can run, chase, tackle and pressure more. Its not saying Harry doesn't chase, but is he going to catch as many people as say Fogarty, Martin or Motlop who essentially take his place? No.

Ultimately, the question needs to be asked.
Are we better with 2 rucks?
or
Are we better with 2 key forwards?

My answer has always been the latter, and i think most will agree.
So then its a 'who plays backup ruck?'
That can come from whoever is in the team at the time.....my preference is for Jack because he is simply better at it than anyone else be that Young, Harry, Charlie, McGovern....but it doesn't have to be Jack.

Re: AFL Rd 21 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs St Kilda

Reply #71
didn’t like that honest insight from Voss thought it wasn’t needed. What did that achieve other then make the kid who has struggled to see any faith shown from Voss being started as a sub countless times feel like he is still very much on the outer. He even cracked the joke they would rip the stands down if we subbed him so he couldn’t do it.

I would have preferred Voss to use that game to generate as much confidence for Dow from it as possible with no negatives but instead now feels like not much has changed.

Obvious Voss is still not a fan and Dow will be delisted at seasons end which as a depth mid on min contract I would be happy to retain him but don’t see it happening.
Thats how I surmised it Shawny...I have been a fan of Dow since his U18 days and wondered why his numbers in the twos didnt equate to games in the seniors but the first half showed why Voss has been reluctant to play and trust him beyond being used as the sub. He kicked that goal in the second half which was good for him but you would probably expect that to be kicked by a senior player in that scenario nine times out of ten.
I think he makes a reasonable sub who can give you a burst of possessions and some run and carry but I still dont see him as a four quarter midfielder who I would trust vs decent opposition not to cost you a couple of goals through lack of composure.
He relies on weight of possession numbers rather than quality of possessions at the moment and that hasnt changed since his U18 days.

Re: AFL Rd 21 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs St Kilda

Reply #72
Pity we can't make top 4. If we could, we would be some massive flag chance.
Bulldogs 2016, finished 7th and rolled straight through.......I see playing a final interstate as the main obstacle but not insurmountable.

Re: AFL Rd 21 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs St Kilda

Reply #73
Thats how I surmised it Shawny...I have been a fan of Dow since his U18 days and wondered why his numbers in the twos didnt equate to games in the seniors but the first half showed why Voss has been reluctant to play and trust him beyond being used as the sub. He kicked that goal in the second half which was good for him but you would probably expect that to be kicked by a senior player in that scenario nine times out of ten.
I think he makes a reasonable sub who can give you a burst of possessions and some run and carry but I still dont see him as a four quarter midfielder who I would trust vs decent opposition not to cost you a couple of goals through lack of composure.
He relies on weight of possession numbers rather than quality of possessions at the moment and that hasnt changed since his U18 days.

By the same token though, it all depends on how Dow takes it.

It can be taken as...
- If i put in the effort, and get results, i will be rewarded with game time. This is fair, and i will ensure i get results so i get games.
or
- The coach doesn't like me, wants to drop me first chance he gets. Why bother.

Now both scenarios are equally as likely. If the player chooses the 'weak' path of option 2, then he probably isn't for us anyway.

Re: AFL Rd 21 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs St Kilda

Reply #74
Just a guess.
I wouldn't be surprised if a decision on Dow has already been made, quite amicably and honest, in fact.
A tough, frank conversation, that lets Dow know that if he wants to play at senior level he's behind a few already and opportunities will also be given to younger players ahead of him, so Carlton might not be the best option.

Dow's been told that he's free to look around, and while we're down a few players we'll give him some game time to show what he has to offer other clubs.
Works to the advantage of both player and club.
We get a good trade, and Dow finds some regular game time at a new home.
The only danger is we may have a few disgruntled supporters if he has a good end to the year.

But of course nothing is ever set in stone and minds can change...pretty much as the sub switch changed yesterday.

It's a funny one because we kind of got a glimpse of reasons he hasn't been picked in the first half...and yet he showed in the second half that it may be that he just needs some consistent game time to show his best.
He seems popular with players and a large percentage of supporters...you rarely see a response like the crowd gave him after his goal.