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Topic: AFL Rd 22 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Melbourne (Read 13932 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: AFL Rd 22 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #30 –
Quote from: pinot – on
Pitto is a crab - if you cant defend nor kick goals as a ruckman then thats a crab.

Comparing stats when TDK spent most of his time forward is ludicrous.

Well what a well thought out and intelligent rebuttal.  ::)

Its a bit like asking Pittonet to kick goals when he doesn't spend much time forward?
Or complaining that he doesn't take intercept marks in a game where he took 2 to TDKs none.

Funny thing about crabs. There's an argument that nature considers it a perfect creature. Evolution keeps turning things into crabs.
There are plenty of different types of crabs throughout the world, and we can identify them immediately as crabs, but they've come through completely different evolutionary paths to get there and many are completely unrelated to eachother.
So perhaps calling Pittonet a crab is a compliment? ;)

Re: AFL Rd 22 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #31 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
Well what a well thought out and intelligent rebuttal.  ::)

Its a bit like asking Pittonet to kick goals when he doesn't spend much time forward?
Or complaining that he doesn't take intercept marks in a game where he took 2 to TDKs none.

Funny thing about crabs. There's an argument that nature considers it a perfect creature. Evolution keeps turning things into crabs.
There are plenty of different types of crabs throughout the world, and we can identify them immediately as crabs, but they've come through completely different evolutionary paths to get there and many are completely unrelated to eachother.
So perhaps calling Pittonet a crab is a compliment? ;)

May as well get games in Hudson O'Keefe if thats the case. Maybe he can defend better and kick some goals.

Re: AFL Rd 22 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #32 –
The failure in analysis here continues to be the idea that one ruck or the other is the only correct answer, when it is pretty much obvious to most fans that the two are complimentary as Voss outlined in his post match presser.

I suspect in the vast majority of cases, both will be a stronger option than either in isolation.

I realise that might be sad news for some fans who have favourites, perhaps even 3rd wheels they favour that are struggling for a slot to fill, but it's AFL it's not meant to be easy and it certainly isn't fair!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: AFL Rd 22 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #33 –
I also don't get the Great Ruck non debate. By current contract standards, De Koning has signed a medium term deal, and Pittonet a long term deal. The club clearly wants both, and believes they can both work together. Voss mentioned in his last press conference that Pittonet is there to "grind away", and De Koning is there to "provide energy". He was asked about De Koning (and particularly his 3rd q) and was full of praise - he referred a few of De Koning's "statement plays." He also said it takes both of them to get the job done.

Re: AFL Rd 22 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #34 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
I gave Pittonet a vote, he was the one that had to take on Marshall more often than not and evened up the contest after half time which helped us get back in the game after Marshall dominated early. Way under appreciated is Pittonet and I dont think we would have won without him.

Did you see how StKilda got their first goal? First Crack highlighted Pittonet's poor effort, also highlighted why Fisher is only a back up.
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: AFL Rd 22 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #35 –
Is Boyd available this week after his suspension? He was in pretty good form so be interesting to see if he comes back in this week or back through the VFL.

Re: AFL Rd 22 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #36 –
Quote from: WASurfer – on
Is Boyd available this week after his suspension? He was in pretty good form so be interesting to see if he comes back in this week or back through the VFL.

Yes. Voss mentioned he will return in his presser.

Re: AFL Rd 22 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #37 –
Quote from: WASurfer – on
Is Boyd available this week after his suspension? He was in pretty good form so be interesting to see if he comes back in this week or back through the VFL.

Straight in.
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!
 

Re: AFL Rd 22 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #38 –
Quote from: madbluboy – on
Straight in.
Agree, he was in good form before the suspension and has had a freshen up, plus it's not just about form but about standing by players who do the hard stuff or get hard done by!

By the way, Darcy Byrne-Jones missed a week from a concussion that was probably already evident when he played on before Boyd's tackle, in hindsight it looks like Port have form in allowing blokes to play on who are otherwise questionable?
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: AFL Rd 22 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #39 –
Quote from: madbluboy – on
Did you see how StKilda got their first goal? First Crack highlighted Pittonet's poor effort, also highlighted why Fisher is only a back up.
I noted that during the game and thought it was terrible. Its not like Marshall sprinted forward, he ambled to the fwd line with Pitto giving him 2 horse leads worth of space instead of a short dog leads worth. He must do better than that, its takes no skill, just footy smarts and effort.
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership

Re: AFL Rd 22 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #40 –
Quote from: madbluboy – on
Did you see how StKilda got their first goal? First Crack highlighted Pittonet's poor effort, also highlighted why Fisher is only a back up.
Yep Pittonet didnt follow his man back quick enough and needs to show more effort but I thought his ruckwork was better than TDK he had 23 hitouts/3 marks to TDK's nine hitouts and 1 mark...didnt see what others see in the greatness of TDK's game at all.

Re: AFL Rd 22 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #41 –
There is an old boxing saying that you take out your opponents legs by attacking their body.  Pittonett attacks the body of opposing ruckman and takes out their legs which allows TDK to use his athleticism to advantage.
On Saturday's match. Melbourne might be in a bit of form but Carlton's form is better. We are due to beat these guys and if we turn up with the right attitude we should do it.

Re: AFL Rd 22 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #42 –
Quote from: LP – on
The failure in analysis here continues to be the idea that one ruck or the other is the only correct answer, when it is pretty much obvious to most fans that the two are complimentary as Voss outlined in his post match presser.

I suspect in the vast majority of cases, both will be a stronger option than either in isolation.

I realise that might be sad news for some fans who have favourites, perhaps even 3rd wheels they favour that are struggling for a slot to fill, but it's AFL it's not meant to be easy and it certainly isn't fair!

Failure in analysis, or failure in comprehension?

I've agreed with you that the compliment eachother, i always have. That is not part of the debate.

"A luxury we cannot afford" and "Better team balance without" is the take home points of this debate you, and others, are missing.

Read this slowly.....
If we play 2 ruckman, will our efforts in the ruck be better than we play 1 ruck? Absolutely they will.
Depending on who else is in the side (ie key forwards/backs) can the 2 ruckman potentially hurt our overall team balance and overall team performance as a result...that is, make us too tall? Certainly can.

Now we've got that cleared up....for the 99th time...back to the actual debate.

Is the team better off by playing....
1 ruck, and 2 key forwards, 2 key backs and a 3rd forward and a 3rd back.....(7 talls + 15 smalls)
or
2 rucks, and 2 key forwards, 2 key backs and a 3rd forward and a 3rd back.....(8 talls + 14 smalls)

I would 100% say we get better overall performance from the first option.
Our ruck performance will be down, but our pressure rating will be higher and give us more benefit.

1 ruck is sufficient to compete to an acceptable level.
2 rucks mean our ruck area is obviously better.
3 rucks mean its even better
4 rucks means its better again.

With the addition of additional rucks, that area is strengthened, but other areas are weakened.
We literally won games without a single ruck, so clearly their importance is overstated.

If your 2nd ruck/backup ruck can not hold down another position on merit, then "its a luxury we can't afford"
Right now, we don't have Harry or Jack up forward so
For "team balance" we can clearly play 2 rucks. Without them, we are not 'tall enough', which is the opposite problem to what we have when everyone is fit.

Re: AFL Rd 22 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #43 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Yep Pittonet didnt follow his man back quick enough and needs to show more effort but I thought his ruckwork was better than TDK he had 23 hitouts/3 marks to TDK's nine hitouts and 1 mark...didnt see what others see in the greatness of TDK's game at all.


Darcy had a million hit outs the other week against us but just like pittonet he had no influence.
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: AFL Rd 22 2023 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Melbourne

Reply #44 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Yep Pittonet didnt follow his man back quick enough and needs to show more effort but I thought his ruckwork was better than TDK he had 23 hitouts/3 marks to TDK's nine hitouts and 1 mark...didnt see what others see in the greatness of TDK's game at all.
Forget about hitouts, that includes ones that go to 50-50 contests and even to the opposition.

HTA was Pittonet 10, TDK 3.
FWIW Marshall also had 10.....even though he attented 19 more ruck contests and had 7 more hitouts than Pittonet, end result was same. 10 each to advantage.