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Topic: AFL Rd 24 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS (Read 7972 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: AFL Rd 24 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS

Reply #15 –
Quote from: Gointocarlton – on
They wanted it way more and were too quick for us. I thought Coniglio and Whitfield tore us a new one on the outside. Sort of glad we aren't playing them.
Both are as soft as butter, same with Kelly, in the finals they wont hold up imo...Whitfield threw in the short steps when attempting a mark early and I thought we had more problems with Daniels and Bedford who cut us up with their pace.
With our full crew back we should be able to take care of all the 6-8th place teams imho although as you say Weitering may have a charge to answer but given Greene seemed ok I cant see it being sustained.
Didnt like the Harry ruck stuff either and want Pittonet back in and Harry back to CHF.

Re: AFL Rd 24 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS

Reply #16 –
There it is folks.  Remember teams who have 5 outs rarely win.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: AFL Rd 24 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS

Reply #17 –
We lost the game at the Selection Table:
[1] Not selecting Pittonet was a mistake: I hope it was due to niggles, as he would have been far more effective in the ruck. Tom got his hand on the ball a bit, but had no control over his taps went. GWS smashed us in the centre.

[2] Cerra had the quietest 22 possession game I can remember him playing. He'll be better for the run. Our best mid was possibly George Hewett, but he had 1 clearance. Dow was our best clearance option, with 8, from 21 possessions; not his best game, but he got most of our clearances.

[3] H needs the run. He was ordinary, and his decision making at times is terrible.

[4] Jack Martin was well beaten for the first time in ages. He struggled to make an impact. Cotters was quiet. Cuningham played his worst game since his return, fumbling and missing targets. Ollie Hollands also had one of his worst games. He was robbed of that goal!

[5] Marchbank was good when he came on.

[6] Weitering was probably our most effective player. He dominated Hogan, even with the ball coming down as it was.

[7] I must mention the umpiring. In the first half it was diabolical. Tackles were not rewarded, leading directly to GWS goals. As to the holding our our key forwards ... I'm just not going there.
Live Long and Prosper!

Re: AFL Rd 24 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS

Reply #18 –
Harry not impacting the scoreboard when Charlie is held is a big issue that needs to be addressed.

Re: AFL Rd 24 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS

Reply #19 –
Quote from: crashlander – on

[7] I must mention the umpiring. In the first half it was diabolical. Tackles were not rewarded, leading directly to GWS goals. As to the holding our our key forwards ... I'm just not going there.
Yep. Just very pro GWS - the numerous HTB not awarded to us but against us. It was maddening.
 

Re: AFL Rd 24 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS

Reply #20 –
Quote from: pinot – on
Harry not impacting the scoreboard when Charlie is held is a big issue that needs to be addressed.
Don't let Harry ruck, and Charlie will get more help.

Re: AFL Rd 24 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS

Reply #21 –
The result was highly predictable and in the long run may well be beneficial because we had a game where we were able in parts to demonstrate the pressure we've been showing but didn't have to sustain it.
We were able to rest players who, had we been playing for a finals spot, no doubt would have played.
We ended the game with key players in cotton wool.

The only downside was a few injuries, but we'll see how they come up after a couple of weeks rest.
I suspect the Weitering thing will at least be looked at.
If you have a look at Voss's press conference, tonight was a bit about experimentation and the rest of it was pretty much about what's to come...and that was full of confidence.

There's often this debate about going 100% all the time.
The fact is that's physically and mentally impossible and coaches and fitness staff are all over this.
If there is the opportunity to lessen the load for a period, where nothing is on the line, they'll take that opportunity.

Both Collingwood and Port have had down periods in the recent past.
There's every possibilty that was by design....either through lessening the demands on players or alternatively getting some solid blocks of training into others.

Re: AFL Rd 24 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS

Reply #22 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Both are as soft as butter, same with Kelly, in the finals they wont hold up imo...Whitfield threw in the short steps when attempting a mark early and I thought we had more problems with Daniels and Bedford who cut us up with their pace.
With our full crew back we should be able to take care of all the 6-8th place teams imho although as you say Weitering may have a charge to answer but given Greene seemed ok I cant see it being sustained.
Didnt like the Harry ruck stuff either and want Pittonet back in and Harry back to CHF.
Greene did him no favours in a post match interview, said he might be in trouble. When they came back after half time, Greene was talking (almost arguing) with Weiters right in front of us, obviously telling him he was in strife and would miss a final.
We wont take care of anyone if we play like the second half yesterday.
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership

Re: AFL Rd 24 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS

Reply #23 –
In the post match presser, Voss said early indications on Acres' shoulder "might not be great."

Not sure I understand the cockiness and arrogance some fans are displaying, as if somehow we could smash the Giants or any other team if we really wanted to. We didn't lose by 1 or 2 points. We lost by 5 goals, and I think frankly the scoreline flattered us. Alarm bells ringing all over the ground after that performance.

Re: AFL Rd 24 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS

Reply #24 –
I'm not going to read too much into that game, it panned out as I expected, early focus on Charlie then play as it happens.

It looked to me like we experimented with a few things, or in particular we didn't do what I would have expected we would do to win the game but tried some different stuff.

I thought the signs were good for Cunningham and Fogarty, the early days in that game were as hot as any final and they showed they have the finals gear.

Hollands is the best runner I've seen since Bradley, go back and watch the replay if you can bear it, you see plenty of occasions where he's involved in a F50 physical contest, then seconds later he's at the feet of the defenders or pressuring a loose opponent in our D50.

I wasn't overly joyed by TDK going solo this week with Harry as support, but if nothing else we saw what TDK is capable of. It also proved to me Harry is OK in F50 but not the centre square. Rucking is so much more than being tall and tapping the footy. I think we missed Pitto's defensive focus to allow us to brake the opposition, he positions himself well to force the opposition to play around him.

It was the run Walsh and Cerra needed, I have full confidence in our midfield for the first final and obviously assuming Cripps comes into the side it will give them a huge boost.

Surely any doubts fans have about Owies or Cottrell are now gone.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: AFL Rd 24 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS

Reply #25 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
In the post match presser, Voss said early indications on Acres' shoulder "might not be great."

Not sure I understand the cockiness and arrogance some fans are displaying, as if somehow we could smash the Giants or any other team if we really wanted to. We didn't lose by 1 or 2 points. We lost by 5 goals, and I think frankly the scoreline flattered us. Alarm bells ringing all over the ground after that performance.
Really? They had everything to play for we had nothing.

Once Acres went off the balance was off, no bigger bodies to smash through.

We do have our big bull to come back in, and Doch! Our defence wasn’t the best but then Weiters did have a broken ? Finger. I’m sure that gives a sting.

We always play well against Syd, I have huge faith. Shattered for Acres though if that’s his season done.

Re: AFL Rd 24 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS

Reply #26 –
Quote from: PaulP – on
In the post match presser, Voss said early indications on Acres' shoulder "might not be great."

Not sure I understand the cockiness and arrogance some fans are displaying, as if somehow we could smash the Giants or any other team if we really wanted to. We didn't lose by 1 or 2 points. We lost by 5 goals, and I think frankly the scoreline flattered us. Alarm bells ringing all over the ground after that performance.

Don't take some of the comments for cockiness or arrogance.
It's more a personal idea of what that game was all about and the needs of both sides.
Nothing in life is guranteed...and that is sure and certain when it comes to finals.
We could go down in a screaming heap if we're not switched on when we play the Swans.
But there is a confidence that we will be switched on and if we bring our best football we should win.

I think alarm bells were ringing a bit in the previous couple of weeks, and they were telling us that the group had been playing with a pressure and intensity that was starting to take a toll.
Some players needed a rest, some returning players needed a game with a bit less intensity than we'd been bringing, but one that still gave them a hit-out.

All of us have different life experiences in terms of our sporting careers.
When commenting on these things we bring our own perspective and experiences.
Football has changed significantly since I was young.
Players are now full time professionals, you won't see them with a smoke in the change room after a game.
They don't have to rush from work to training through the week.
Diet and training loads are planned, constantly monitored and tweaked if there is an issue.
Strength and conditioning people are all over training loads and when to go hard and when to ease off.
Hard work is done during the pre-season to build a fitness base and it's more about maintaining that through the season.
Injury and even inexplicable loss of form needs to factored into an individual's program.
We don't know what goes on behind the scenes and what players are playing through injury.
Clearly a fully fit Cripps, Docherty and Pittonet (I suspect he was carrying a few niggles, even though he was listed as omitted) would have improved our side last night.

The other issue was the mental side of the game.
GWS had everything to play for, our guys were probably more cautious, just wanting to make sure they were part of the finals side.
Getting into the heads of our players is impossible but some would have had very different ideas about their approach to the game.
Have a look how we started...getting Charlie his required goals...and the effort was great, after that Weitering gets hurt and goes off, the momentum changes, do we want to fight hard against that knowing that next injury could be us. There's an ebb and flow in effort up until half-time and then it's a cue in the rack performance that sees our very best players finish the game on the bench.

No, it's not an arrogance but more a confidence that we're better than that effort.
Of course it depends on whether we are focused and ready to go...and that's never guaranteed.
Overconfidence can bring you unstuck.
It's over to the coaches and players now.
Every game from now on must be a full on effort...because there is no 'next game' if we lose.
And our players are about to experience a pressure unlike any they've struck before.

Re: AFL Rd 24 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS

Reply #27 –
2022 - 9th.
2023 - 5th. Tick.

H is not a ruckman, but it was probably worth the experiment.

We missed the leadership of Crippa and Doc, especially when they got too many unanswered goals to set up their win in the 3rd.

Once Charles won the Coleman we struggled to find our hunting form.

Too much 'individual' stuff after half time.

Concerned that their physicality seemed to unsettle us.

Hard to imagine that having secured 5th place, and a home final, didn't impact us above the shoulders.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: AFL Rd 24 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS

Reply #28 –




[/quote]
Quote from: LP – on
I'm not going to read too much into that game, it panned out as I expected, early focus on Charlie then play as it happens.

It looked to me like we experimented with a few things, or in particular we didn't do what I would have expected we would do to win the game but tried some different stuff.

I thought the signs were good for Cunningham and Fogarty, the early days in that game were as hot as any final and they showed they have the finals gear.

Hollands is the best runner I've seen since Bradley, go back and watch the replay if you can bear it, you see plenty of occasions where he's involved in a F50 physical contest, then seconds later he's at the feet of the defenders or pressuring a loose opponent in our D50.

I wasn't overly joyed by TDK going solo this week with Harry as support, but if nothing else we saw what TDK is capable of. It also proved to me Harry is OK in F50 but not the centre square. Rucking is so much more than being tall and tapping the footy. I think we missed Pitto's defensive focus to allow us to brake the opposition, he positions himself well to force the opposition to play around him.

It was the run Walsh and Cerra needed, I have full confidence in our midfield for the first final and obviously assuming Cripps comes into the side it will give them a huge boost.

Surely any doubts fans have about Owies or Cottrell are now gone.
Owies was good but Cottrell didn't get much of the ball and would still be a fringe player imo and one who is competing for a place rather than cemented in. He had 13 disposals which won't work vs the top 4 teams unless he is playing on a gun player and keeping them quiet as well.

Re: AFL Rd 24 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs GWS

Reply #29 –
Quote from: pinot – on
Harry not impacting the scoreboard when Charlie is held is a big issue that needs to be addressed.
Wouldn't take anything out of yesterday. We're barely moved out of first gear. Once Charlie got his Coleman the cue was put in the rack.

Harry did a bit of relief rucking. Still got 16 possies, 10 contested and 5 marks. Happy to keep that one going.