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Topic: AFL Elimination Final 1 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Sydney  (Read 32604 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: AFL Elimination Final 1 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Sydney

Reply #165 –
Quote from: shawny – on
I take your points - I guess I’m just tired of underachieving for many years and as this rebuild was the slowest build to play finals any of us would have thought (if we are really being honest) with that in mind having a year where we actually do a tad better then everyone tipped us to do is not asking too much and hence why that’s where im setting the bar at.

If we lose I’m sure when the hurt fades say around Dec I will probably be pleased with the gains made but for now its not how I see it.
Your post raises another question, why did the rebuild take so long? Meddling boards, CEO's? It seems, from the outside looking in at least, every plan that was laid out was not stuck to due to pathetic leadership. We finally have people at the helm who know what the fark they are doing. I'll lay London to a brick that in the middle of this year, if our CEO was Baldylocks and the Prez was MLG with a board full of Pratts, Mathiesons and their boosters, Vossy would have been gonski after the 6 losses.
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership

Re: AFL Elimination Final 1 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Sydney

Reply #166 –
Quote from: Gointocarlton – on
Your post raises another question, why did the rebuild take so long? Meddling boards, CEO's? It seems, from the outside looking in at least, every plan that was laid out was not stuck to due to pathetic leadership. We finally have people at the helm who know what the fark they are doing. I'll lay London to a brick that in the middle of this year, if our CEO was Baldylocks and the Prez was MLG with a board full of Pratts, Mathiesons and their boosters, Vossy would have been gonski after the 6 losses.

When Teague took over the team during Covid the players were young. 2015 class was 22 years old. It's just that the rebuild began at ground zero with a scorched earth policy. Letting Tuohy go for Marchy was a disaster. Then past five years we consistently had 12-15 players on injury list that didn't really help a young team. McGovern, Martin, Williams have hardly played

Re: AFL Elimination Final 1 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Sydney

Reply #167 –
Quote from: pinot – on
Letting Tuohy go for Marchy was a disaster.

This is incorrect.

There are deals attached to deals attached to deals, but this isn't correct.

We traded Tuohy+ 2nd rounder for Smedts, future 1st and a late pick (Fun fact - geelong used that pick on Lachie Fogarty)
That future first was traded again (with some later picks), for Marchbank+Pickett and a 2nd rounder.

We swapped that pick with dogs for other picks. We swapped those picks to adelaide for Gibbs and 2 first rounders.

So....there was about 12 picks that ended up being involved in that initial trade of Tuohy.

Re: AFL Elimination Final 1 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Sydney

Reply #168 –
Quote from: Gointocarlton – on
Your post raises another question, why did the rebuild take so long? Meddling boards, CEO's? It seems, from the outside looking in at least, every plan that was laid out was not stuck to due to pathetic leadership. We finally have people at the helm who know what the fark they are doing. I'll lay London to a brick that in the middle of this year, if our CEO was Baldylocks and the Prez was MLG with a board full of Pratts, Mathiesons and their boosters, Vossy would have been gonski after the 6 losses.

Our rebuild blurprint is certainly something it's doubtful other clubs will follow.
Why did it take so long to be back playing finals?....

We cut too deep initially rather than staggering some of those departures (SOS said as much)
We made some poor choices with trades and selections, and hand in hand with that....
Our development of some young players was also poor.
We had some significant long term injuries and illnesses. (Curnow, Docherty and others)

All of that put pressure on coaches because of the lack of progress...and that resulted in change and another adjustment which then had a delaying effect on the progress.

The reality though is we don't know if persisting with Bolton or Teague would have had us in finals sooner ...or not at all.
Once you sack them that becomes a 'maybe, who knows'

Luck plays a huge part, and being in the right place at the right time with the right group of players is sometimes just about luck and the stars aligning.
 

Re: AFL Elimination Final 1 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Sydney

Reply #169 –
The rebuild took too long for a many reasons, but given the relative talent of the list, we needed a bit of luck.

Ultimately the biggest issue we had during the Ratten years, was that we had a heavy reliance on too few, and the kids didnt kick on, and the mature agers didnt really pan out either.

Good teams don't rely on too few to be competitive, they rely on a few to be good.  We were the opposite.  The other thing that our rebuild struggled with, was key position players.  We had a makeshift forwardline and backline with not enough options in both ends, which meant we struggled in those areas.

We also had a mini exodus of setting standards to the playing group, where we were forced into a situation where we sacked players for non football reasons.  These proved to be some of our better performers at the time, but its possible that this set the scene for us to transform our groups mentality to the point where we were then able to start a rebuild properly, as opposed to the half pregnant approach we did under Pagan, Ratten and then Malthouse.  Bolton I think was the coach that got the rawest deal.  He was given a list in transition, and then had to cope with heavy changes to the list year in year out.

All in all its as simple as this.  Our draft crop of 2015, have played more games together on the list in season 2023, than they had prior to this season, which is no ones fault but dumb luck.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: AFL Elimination Final 1 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Sydney

Reply #170 –
https://www.sen.com.au/news/2023/09/05/very-very-simple-game-to-analyse-the-key-factors-that-will-swing-carlton/

Hoyne is a one-ruck guy but he's changed his mind as to which ruckman offers more.

Quote
Hoyne says the Blues should stick with that mix, saying Tom De Koning has had an excellent six weeks in the ruck.

“I just want to put this on the agenda for Carlton supporters as well,” he said.

“His best position, the last six weeks, he is clearly a ruckman. He is not a forward.

“I would not be playing Pittonet. I would be keeping this really simple. Let this guy go.

“As a ruckman over the last six weeks he’s been the eighth best ruckman in the competition. As a forward, sixth worst forward in the competition.

“Just put Harry McKay in the ruck for five minutes per quarter. The second ruck role, we talk about it a lot, it’s 20 minutes a game. Don’t lose sleep over it.”

This is an enormous swing in two months, with Hoyne saying mid-season that Pittonet statistically was a significantly better ruckman than De Koning. The young Blue has clearly broken out since re-signing.

Re: AFL Elimination Final 1 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Sydney

Reply #171 –
Quote from: Lods – on
Hoyne is a one-ruck guy but he's changed his mind as to which ruckman offers more.
If Negrepontis is using Hoyne as his source I'd suggest he needs to find a more stable source! ;)

I seriously doubt well consider centre square rucking Harry in finals except if all our other ruck options go down, F50 is a different matter and Harry and Cripps have done well in F50 boundary line stoppages.

Rnd 24 was a good a test as you can create and in the centre Harry was pretty much a fail, in rucking terms Harry has;
"All the gear and no idea!"

Given how much they flip I can't take the likes of Hoyne, Negrepontis and others seriously, they wax and wane almost based on a quarter by quarter basis.

They take a stance that is very reminiscent of the early noughties when Grant Thomas wasted St Kilda's good list fortunes by trying to assert you don't need rucks, spent most of his 6 years trying to ruck Koschitzke after Everett left. I recall they had Hayes, De Santo, Riewoldt, Ball, Harvey, Gehrig, Black and others and burnt their chances by trying to ruck a solo B-grader against the likes of Lade and Brogan in a final with Brogan being among the BoG. Port did to the Aints what we should do the others using Pitto and TDK. Thomas never learned, he kept repeating the same mistake, rucked Ackland against Jolly and Ball a year later for the same result, and another year later lost to the Dees who had Jamar and White with White among the BoG!

Finals are high pressure affairs that a very rarely blow outs, most games are in the balance late, and while legs get weary the talls do not get any shorter! ;)
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: AFL Elimination Final 1 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Sydney

Reply #172 –
Quote from: Lods – on
https://www.sen.com.au/news/2023/09/05/very-very-simple-game-to-analyse-the-key-factors-that-will-swing-carlton/

Hoyne is a one-ruck guy but he's changed his mind as to which ruckman offers more.
Probs why we need to keep Jack.
Try and TDK and JSOS second ruck combo.

Re: AFL Elimination Final 1 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Sydney

Reply #173 –
Quote from: tex – on
Probs why we need to keep Jack.
Try and TDK and JSOS second ruck combo.

I just have a feeling they'll announce Jack before we play on Friday night.
Send the fans to the game on an extra high.

Re: AFL Elimination Final 1 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Sydney

Reply #174 –
anyone else concerned about the press on swans ,How lucky to be there North game and ADL game also they are saying how they fall away in last Q, i dont know what to think anymore

Re: AFL Elimination Final 1 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Sydney

Reply #175 –
Quote from: pew2 – on
anyone else concerned about the press on swans ,How lucky to be there North game and ADL game also they are saying how they fall away in last Q, i dont know what to think anymore

I'm not worried about the press around Sydney, I'm worried about them as a team.

Re: AFL Elimination Final 1 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Sydney

Reply #176 –
Quote from: Lods – on
I just have a feeling they'll announce Jack before we play on Friday night.
Send the fans to the game on an extra high.

It does seem like a good time to do it.

Re: AFL Elimination Final 1 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Sydney

Reply #177 –
I have an uneasy feeling about this one.

Everything says we should win and win well but the massive media microscope on the players coupled with the onslaught of platitudes make me wonder if their heads may be way too inflated to do the job.

IMO, our biggest opponent is actually ourselves, if our players think this game is in the bag before it has even been played, then the Swans are the sort of team that will make us pay for that.

Hope I'm wrong & Voss has been drilling them all week about how much work is needed to win a final. 
"The Other Teams Can Rot In Hell"

Re: AFL Elimination Final 1 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Sydney

Reply #178 –
Quote from: Lods – on
https://www.sen.com.au/news/2023/09/05/very-very-simple-game-to-analyse-the-key-factors-that-will-swing-carlton/

Hoyne is a one-ruck guy but he's changed his mind as to which ruckman offers more.

The problem is the small sample size.

Pittonet has come back from injury....and TBH, hasn't looked anywhere near his best. To the point where if given the opportunity, i'd pick TDK and Jack this week over him. 8th best ruck is a middle of the road ruck, which is acceptable. 6 worst forward is the elephant in the room and something i've been saying. He is either #1 ruck, or he is playing 2's. We can't afford to have him as #2 ruck.

Harry as a ruck is far from ideal. He is poor in the ruck. And very poor when it hits the ground. Another area where someone like Jack is a plus.

End result is our ruck setup this week will not be great no matter what option we end up choosing.

Re: AFL Elimination Final 1 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Sydney

Reply #179 –
Not sure if its been mentioned, but there is only 2 teams in the 8 we haven't won against.
Lions and Swans.
We were in a different stage of development/form last time we played both, but it gives us something to prove.