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Re: AI and creativity.

Reply #45 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on
kruddler I'm talking about how this works.

https://www.sas.com/en_au/insights/analytics/what-is-artificial-intelligence.html#:~:text=AI%20adapts%20through%20progressive%20learning,product%20to%20recommend%20next%20online.

Theres nothing that intelligent about it.  It's all about the information you feed it.

Read the last part of that....
Quote
In summary, the goal of AI is to provide software that can reason on input and explain on output. AI will provide human-like interactions with software and offer decision support for specific tasks, but it’s not a replacement for humans – and won’t be anytime soon.

Based on CURRENT forms of AI.
Think longer term.

Here is a few quotes i found from people you may recognise...
“The pace of progress in artificial intelligence (I’m not referring to narrow AI) is incredibly fast. Unless you have direct exposure to groups like Deepmind, you have no idea how fast—it is growing at a pace close to exponential. The risk of something seriously dangerous happening is in the five-year time frame. 10 years at most.”

—Elon Musk wrote in a comment on Edge.org

“The development of full artificial intelligence could spell the end of the human race….It would take off on its own, and re-design itself at an ever increasing rate. Humans, who are limited by slow biological evolution, couldn’t compete, and would be superseded.”

— Stephen Hawking told the BBC

“I don’t want to really scare you, but it was alarming how many people I talked to who are highly placed people in AI who have retreats that are sort of ‘bug out’ houses, to which they could flee if it all hits the fan.”

—James Barrat, author of Our Final Invention: Artificial Intelligence and the End of the Human Era, told the Washington Post

“I’m increasingly inclined to think that there should be some regulatory oversight, maybe at the national and international level, just to make sure that we don’t do something very foolish. I mean with artificial intelligence we’re summoning the demon.”

—Elon Musk warned at MIT’s AeroAstro Centennial Symposium

There are a lot of people smarter than you or I than can see this as becoming an issue and i don't see any reason to doubt them.

Re: AI and creativity.

Reply #46 –
Yes, neural networks and quantum computing rely on carefully crafted questions to deliver accurate responses.

Google conned the public a few years back claiming it's quantum engine solved a question in seconds that would take a conventional supercomputer decades. But the bogus nature of the claim was hidden in the detail. The Google quantum computer was designed and optimised to answer that specific question, in fact that is all it could do, and they used the unoptimised worst case scenario model for the Supercomputer.

If similarly optimised the Supercomputer would take about 2hrs, but the supercomputer can also answer General Purpose computing questions, while the quantum computer could not.

At the moment and into the foreseeable future quantum computers are task specific, like Hino selling one truck to carry bricks, and another truck that carries timber.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: AI and creativity.

Reply #47 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
Read the last part of that....
Based on CURRENT forms of AI.
Think longer term.

Here is a few quotes i found from people you may recognise...
“The pace of progress in artificial intelligence (I’m not referring to narrow AI) is incredibly fast. Unless you have direct exposure to groups like Deepmind, you have no idea how fast—it is growing at a pace close to exponential. The risk of something seriously dangerous happening is in the five-year time frame. 10 years at most.”

—Elon Musk wrote in a comment on Edge.org

“The development of full artificial intelligence could spell the end of the human race….It would take off on its own, and re-design itself at an ever increasing rate. Humans, who are limited by slow biological evolution, couldn’t compete, and would be superseded.”

— Stephen Hawking told the BBC

“I don’t want to really scare you, but it was alarming how many people I talked to who are highly placed people in AI who have retreats that are sort of ‘bug out’ houses, to which they could flee if it all hits the fan.”

—James Barrat, author of Our Final Invention: Artificial Intelligence and the End of the Human Era, told the Washington Post

“I’m increasingly inclined to think that there should be some regulatory oversight, maybe at the national and international level, just to make sure that we don’t do something very foolish. I mean with artificial intelligence we’re summoning the demon.”

—Elon Musk warned at MIT’s AeroAstro Centennial Symposium

There are a lot of people smarter than you or I than can see this as becoming an issue and i don't see any reason to doubt them.


I'm still talking about how this works on a functional level. 

The hello world component of it all.  Function, algorithm, patterns, data, logic. 

Apply that to people.  They don't respond anywhere near as consistently because emotions, attachments, void of logical, empathy.

The hard disk is still just a library of instructions, which vary based on data, logic, and outcomes.

I've heard what you've stated.  I see what those above have written and predicted.  To a degree, uncontrolled I think it could get out of hand, but it would have to be so far removed from our current concept of a computer and how they work that it still isn't AI but a computer drawing bad conclusions, from faulty modelling.  The exact opposite of intuitive knowledge and ergo not intelligent.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: AI and creativity.

Reply #48 –
AI as it is currently being touted is dependant on LLM, massively parallel datasets that are trolled by massively parallel neural networks in the form of a Generative Adversarial Network, to construct algorithms and relationships between bits of data. But the LLM can't distinguish between reality and fantasy, and the dataset is not trivial. For example you could craft a question that would goad an AI into answering a question with facts relating to how bones of fire breathing dragons were found amongst dinosaur fossils.

Quantum computers are at the moment limited to a few hundred qubits, and they give instant answers to carefully crafted "questions", (This question is typically a conjecture expressed in math) but that questions can take weeks, months or years to get correct, and then take weeks, months or years to form a proof that both the question and the answer were correct. Think of the movie "The Man Who Knew Infinity."

At the moment Nano whatever works down to a molecular level, they are singular function devices that have zero intelligence or awareness.

That last word awareness is the critical term, because without awareness any system will be easily deceived no matter how well we craft it to be perceived as intelligent, and that is why our lauded AI LLM wonders can inform you "There be Dragons!"

If you want to worry about a technology going forward, probably nefarious enhanced humans might be your biggest threat, a uber brain in a complete bastard!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"
 

Re: AI and creativity.

Reply #49 –
This AI debate reminded me of a lecture from Hannah Fry a few years back, I think part of the Royal Society Christmas Lecture series.

This video and others well worth watching;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rzhpf1Ai7Z4
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: AI and creativity.

Reply #50 –
Just had a listen to the new Beatles song "Now and Then"
Lennon's AI generated voice sounds tinny and artificial.
It only resembles the Beatles when the chorus kicks in but even then it's a pretty average song and more reminiscent of Lennon's post Beatles material.

It's still likely to be a hit, but sometimes it's better to leave well enough alone.

Re: AI and creativity.

Reply #51 –
I had the weirdest experience with packet transfer this week at work.  We have some SSL VPN tunnels which sends encrypted data from our on premises Firewall to our cloud provider.  Effectively, the traffic to and from premises is encrypted and when data is transferred its broken up into ESP packets.  These tunnels once established a fairly bullet proof and only re-authenticate without dropping.  For about a week we started having an issue where we couldnt contact the cloud through that link, and ended up having to drop the tunnels and bring them back up to fix it.  20 minutes of down time each time, nothing too serious but then an investigation into root cause.   The fact they re-established after dropping means configuration wasnt the issue.

Now these packets are encrypted, and the way it works is when you have large amounts of data, its broken up into smaller amounts, encrypted, and then sent down this tunnel via an internet connection, which will arrive the other side, and be re-assembled in order.  The tunnel is a public connection with a public and private key pair.  This is complex but not a big deal, nothing will usually go wrong there.

  We ran some analysis, could see capture a log of traffic being sent by our firewall, and the cloud provider was not receiving them.  After a couple of days of back and forth trying to work out where the break down was, and also contacting our internet service provider, we setup a sniffer in the middle that would intercept the packets and relay them down the line and upon checking those logs realised that everything fell over at the first hope.  Firewall outbound seemed to not be happening even though it told us it was.

We have two of them in an active passive situation which will ensure if we lose one, stuff doesnt ever break.  We failed over initially and it worked instantly (same config, same connections) and then failed back, and issue was present.  So the (secondary)passive firewall was fine, and the active (primary) one started having the issue  was resolved by simply turning it off, and turning it on again.

We are talking about a device, running a linux operating system, which has one job, that stopped doing its job and is usually the most robust component of the network, have a big issue.  Now, you could argue that AI will re-write the code to prevent this from happening, but the problem is that everything looked fine, and actually wasn't.

THIS is why I don't think we will ever get to a point, where technology can do things properly without simply running commands, because even when we tell them to do something, they have a weird problem where they refuse to do the job they are employed for properly and a simply troubleshoot of drop and re-authenticate only worked for temporary restoration of services before we experienced another issue.  Get these things with AI, and Im not sure how its supposed to analyse whats happening beyond its front door, when we had to implement more devices to actually tell us this information.  


"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: AI and creativity.

Reply #52 –
Quote from: Lods – on
Just had a listen to the new Beatles song "Now and Then"
Lennon's AI generated voice sounds tinny and artificial.
It only resembles the Beatles when the chorus kicks in but even then it's a pretty average song and more reminiscent of Lennon's post Beatles material.

It's still likely to be a hit, but sometimes it's better to leave well enough alone.
I too had a listen. Always an admirer of The Beatles (who isn't)  but not a huge fan (prefer the Stones). My opinion is that 'creating' a new song is better than having it left on an unlistenable cassette but it is hardly a great song.

I was interested to hear the other day 2 Brian Johnson ACDC songs with Bon Scott doing the vocals (via AI). Also a bit tinny sounding I thought but I always way preferred Bon vocals. Where will it end? Maybe me on lead vocals...

Re: AI and creativity.

Reply #53 –
The problem ultimately becomes a debate about what is consciousness, at some very fine grained level we are all machines, dualism doesn't exist.

We break and we pass, despite millions of years of evolution to get every possible variant just right. Some human or AI designed code has no chance, because the chip it runs on is made from are the same sources of materials as all of us! Human or AI, we are all stardust.

In us a cosmic ray can cause cancer, for an AI a cosmic ray could be instantly fatal.

I've probably offended a large portion of the population just then, the technocrats and the religious! :o
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: AI and creativity.

Reply #54 –
Ironically, people are looking at this debate in binary fashion.

It works or it doesn't.

The possibility that AI could outperform humans quite easily, while still exhibiting some faults is a very real possibility that does not alleviate the exestensial concerns.

Nobody said AI would be infallible.

Re: AI and creativity.

Reply #55 –
Of course....
It's not infallible...its a developing thing...and the ability to reproduce artists work will get better.

McCartney was asked whether he thought John would be on board with the project and his response was an emphatic 'yes.'

It then becomes a matter of an intellectual legacy.
Once an artist passes do they 'or surviving family' have any control how their voices are used and what songs they 'perform'.
They might find the material totally against their style even beliefs...but does it matter, because they're dead?

Re: AI and creativity.

Reply #56 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
Ironically, people are looking at this debate in binary fashion.

It works or it doesn't.

The possibility that AI could outperform humans quite easily, while still exhibiting some faults is a very real possibility that does not alleviate the exestensial concerns.

Nobody said AI would be infallible.
for my experience above you'll never see me in a driverless vehicle.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: AI and creativity.

Reply #57 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on
for my experience above you'll never see me in a driverless vehicle.
That becomes a debate about repetition and reliability, because it's about robotics not AI.

There's a simple philosophy thought experiment related to Occams Razor, built on the concept of the atom.

How many time can you be divided and consciousness remains, when are the pieces so small consciousness goes away?
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: AI and creativity.

Reply #59 –
Quote from: LP – on
That becomes a debate about repetition and reliability, because it's about robotics not AI.

There's a simple philosophy thought experiment related to Occams Razor, built on the concept of the atom.

How many time can you be divided and consciousness remains, when are the pieces so small consciousness goes away?

Mate, the firewall wigging out and dropping esp packets, is how the driverless vehicle is going to receive external information securely to prevent it being "hacked". 

Those tunnels have been bullet proof for 12 months.  The IT world is an ever evolving beast but that made no sense.

Check out what an IP sec tunnel is. It's dry reading but illuminating.

https://www.cloudflare.com/en-au/learning/network-layer/what-is-ipsec/
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson