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The forward line 2024 - who plays and how is it structured?

When I did Kruddler's best 22, my forward line was:

HF: Martin    McKay     Owies
F:    Motlop  Curnow    Silvagni

with Cottrell on the bench as the seventh forward and Docherty moving between wing and half forward.

Obviously, with Jack's tragic injury, there's an opening for another forward, but did I get the structure and personnel right?

We're going to go with two rucks and De Koning is going to spend time forward both to spell Charlie and Harry and to play as a third tall.  Do we need a like for like replacement for Silvagni or can we cover the third tall role with a combination of De Koning and medium forwards like Martin?

My post-Silvagni ACL forward line is:

HF: Martin    McKay     Cottrell
F:    Motlop  Curnow    Owies

with Docherty and De Koning as part time forwards and other midfielders resting forward from time to time.  I'm not entirely sure who to have on the bench as the seventh forward but I'll go with Cuningham.

 
"Negative waves are not helpful. Try saying something righteous and hopeful instead." Oddball

Re: The forward line 2024 - who plays and how is it structured?

Reply #1 –
I reckon the closest thing we have to replace Jack Silvagni and his style as a forward is actually Patty Cripps, but he'll be used in the midfield.

So next best is the poor mans Patty Cripps - Matt Kennedy. He is kinda getting squeezed out of the midfield, so needs another string to his bow, and that is as a forward. He's played there as a junior. He played there before. He kicked 3 goals on debut. He is a good mark, obviously good once the ball hits the deck and doesn't mind contact. He'd be 'my guy' to take over from Jack.

Of course the added benefit is he could swap with Cripps in the middle if/when required as well.

For mine....
HF - Martin - Charlie - Owies
FF - Motlop - McKay - Kennedy

I'd have both Cottrell and Cuningham on the bench as forward/mid options.

Re: The forward line 2024 - who plays and how is it structured?

Reply #2 –
I have a feeling we are going to need to find a fwd-mid role for Elijah Hollands - and Motlop and Owies will have Cory Durdin and Orazio breathing down their necks.

The forward structure is the key to going the next step - in the last part of the 2023 season, our scoring dried up a bit .  We need to consistently kick 13+ goals a game to make sure we win the lion's share of games.
This is now the longest premiership drought in the history of the Carlton Football Club - more evidence of climate change?

Re: The forward line 2024 - who plays and how is it structured?

Reply #3 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
For mine....
HF - Martin - Charlie - Owies
FF - Motlop - McKay - Kennedy

I'd have both Cottrell and Cuningham on the bench as forward/mid options.
Agreed, this would be my starting F50 as well.

No doubt about Cripps being used in F50 rotations, last season was the tell, his F50 craft has gone to another level and I'm hoping Walsh, Martin, Williams and Doc all stay fit as it means Cripps won't be as buggered when he pushes forward. That's a beautiful thing for the likes of Martin, Cottrell, Acres, Kennedy and perhaps even McGovern, Kemp or Doc, because the opposition can't put a dud on Cripps anymore meaning they get a downgrade, or even better float in unattended.

As long as our F50 smalls including Motlop and Owies work hard dragging opponents all over the deck, and chase down the turnovers, it's looking like we have a lethal setup.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: The forward line 2024 - who plays and how is it structured?

Reply #4 –
With Harry and Charlie our key forwards, Cottrell and Martin our medium forwards and Motlop and Owies our small forwards, l think the seventh position will be between,  Fogarty, E. Hollands, Cuningham, Fantasia, Durdin and Binns. Jack Carroll is going to find a position. Moir and Lemmey will be development projects. Players like TDK, Kennedy and O. Hollands will spend time going through the forward line as well.

Re: The forward line 2024 - who plays and how is it structured?

Reply #5 –
Harry and Charlie, every one else get out of the farken way.
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership

Re: The forward line 2024 - who plays and how is it structured?

Reply #6 –
Quote from: Gointocarlton – on
Harry and Charlie, every one else get out of the farken way.

Yes, there's a lot to be said for that approach :)

The idea of Kennedy as Jack's replacement has merit but, apart from his four goal haul against Cold Toast, he hasn't been a success when played as a dedicated forward.  Most third tall defenders would have his measure and I think that his best position is as a midfielder who rests forward on a medium defender.

From what we've heard from players and coaches and from what has been reported from training and match sims;

* De Koning and Pittonet are going to share the ruck duties with De Koning resting forward.

* Docherty is going to play as midfielder/forward.

* Cottrell is going to play as a forward (which means he'll be all over the ground).

* Motlop is a lock for a small forward position.

* Elijah Hollands is almost certain to play from Round 3 and could play as a midfielder/forward.

* Rob Monahan is impressing as a medium forward but, realistically, would have to shine in the VFL to be considered for a spot later in the season.

* Corey Durdin isn't doing contact work and is destined to start in the VFL when he's fit.

* Vossy is happy with with the roles players now have and does not want to make positional changes.  It's unlikely that potential swingmen - Kemp and McGovern - will play as forwards.

That leaves us with McKay and Curnow (with Lemmey as back up) as out tall forwards, three medium forwards (Martin, Cuningham and Cottrell), two small forwards (Motlop and Owies) and Docherty rotating through the midfield and forward line.  De Koning will spend time as a key forward, both when resting and when giving McKay or Curnow a spell.  Other midfielders will spend time in the forward line as occasional medium forwards or tall forward in Cripps' case.

The problem with that structure is that the opposition's third tall defender, say Lever, Stewart, Howe, etc, will lack an opponent in marking contests and will be able to help try to nullify McKay and Curnow as well as taking intercept marks.  A lot will rely on Martin and Cottrell keeping the third tall defender honest in the air and exploiting them when the ball comes to ground.

It will be interesting to see how we line up against Geelong on Thursday morning ...


"Negative waves are not helpful. Try saying something righteous and hopeful instead." Oddball

Re: The forward line 2024 - who plays and how is it structured?

Reply #7 –
Quote from: DJC – on
The problem with that structure is that the opposition's third tall defender, say Lever, Stewart, Howe, etc, will lack an opponent in marking contests and will be able to help try to nullify McKay and Curnow as well as taking intercept marks.  A lot will rely on Martin and Cottrell keeping the third tall defender honest in the air and exploiting them when the ball comes to ground.

I am of the opinion that 2 rucks are overkill, but we have no backup options, so for where we are in terms of list i can accept 2 rucks as required.

So, with that in mind, we need to use them effectively.
As a result, i would like to think that our 2nd/resting ruck, will play deep and force a tall opponent to stand him. TDK, is the obvious one, but even Pittonet needs to be down there and make them accountable. It will allow Harry to play CHF and allow Charlie to go wherever the hell he wants, depending on who is left standing him. If its a tall, run up to the wings. If its a smaller running player, play deep also and get it kicked on your head.

The only way we can make a 3rd tall accountable, is to play a 3rd tall in a position that will hurt the opposition and make them take notice.
Kennedy will do well as the 3rd tall in terms of output.
TDK/Pittonet will do well in terms of keeping the defenders honest.

I suspect it will change around depending on our opponents.

Ideally, i'd be working towards a team that has 1 ruck and 1 ruck only, whoever that is.

Re: The forward line 2024 - who plays and how is it structured?

Reply #8 –
If both rucks are fit, they will both play.

Re: The forward line 2024 - who plays and how is it structured?

Reply #9 –
Quote from: DJC – on
* De Koning and Pittonet are going to share the ruck duties with De Koning resting forward.
They'll share the ruck duties but the bulk of the rotation will be off the bench, except when TDK has the opportunity to float forward in rotations that will include himself, BigH and Cripps.

If Pitto is not rucking but on the field I expect him to float defensive side of centre, and I can see especially in Weiters early absence, that Pitto helps out across CHB.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: The forward line 2024 - who plays and how is it structured?

Reply #10 –
Quote from: LP – on
They'll share the ruck duties but the bulk of the rotation will be off the bench, except when TDK has the opportunity to float forward in rotations that will include himself, BigH and Cripps.

If Pitto is not rucking but on the field I expect him to float defensive side of centre, and I can see especially in Weiters early absence, that Pitto helps out across CHB.

Cripps went forward very occasionally last season - 9 goals vs 20 in 2022.  I can't see that changing this season; Vossy believes that he's too valuable in the midfield and his forward forays will be as a midfielder rather than as a tall forward.  That said, if I was coaching, I would rest Cripps forward from time to time ...
"Negative waves are not helpful. Try saying something righteous and hopeful instead." Oddball
 

Re: The forward line 2024 - who plays and how is it structured?

Reply #11 –
A whole bunch of half forward/mids instead of a third tall maybe.

Re: The forward line 2024 - who plays and how is it structured?

Reply #12 –
Quote from: DJC – on
Cripps went forward very occasionally last season - 9 goals vs 20 in 2022.
True, but because in the first 1/2 of the season he wasn't resting forward, I think he had 1-8 at the mid-season break.

I'd assert we looked better after he started carrying his injury and was forced to rest forward, and not exhausted he looked a reliable shot for goal despite the injury we all know he was carrying, collecting 8-6 for a season total of 9-14.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: The forward line 2024 - who plays and how is it structured?

Reply #13 –
Quote from: LP – on
True, but because in the first 1/2 of the season he wasn't resting forward, I think he had 1-8 at the mid-season break.

I'd assert we looked better after he started carrying his injury and was forced to rest forward, and not exhausted he looked a reliable shot for goal despite the injury we all know he was carrying, collecting 8-6 for a season total of 9-14.

If you watch Crippa's 2023 highlights, it's readily apparent that all of his goals and most of his behinds were scored while he was actively involved in the midfield; run down tackles, leads into the forward 50, running the ball into scoring range and I think one even came from a ruck infringement.

Cripps rarely rested forward in 2023 and I can't see that changing in 2024.  Voss seems very reluctant to change what has worked well.


"Negative waves are not helpful. Try saying something righteous and hopeful instead." Oddball

Re: The forward line 2024 - who plays and how is it structured?

Reply #14 –
There is no such thing as resting forward anymore.
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!