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Topic: AFL Rd 21 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood (Read 22146 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: AFL Rd 21 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #120 –
Maybe it’s time for Charlie to become Kouta like and not a stay at home full forward.

Re: AFL Rd 21 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #121 –
Quote from: Milhanna13 – on
Bad kicking is bad football.   We outplayed them in the first Q, but had nothing to show for it.  Outplayed them in the last Q, and capitalsied on it.   They outplayed us in Q2 and 3 and hit the scoreboard

It is still a big worry how easily we get openned up, when the oppo slingshot against us.  Just waltze thru the middle, with 3 or 4 players running, against 1 of ours.  Esp (as someone earlier said), when its someone dynamic like Degoey.  None of our mids have that explosion like him.    Although the Hawks lost, they did a lot of this v GWS, and we need to somehow stop it, or we could get scored against heavily.   commentators kept menitoning pies scoring 3 or 4 goals from kick ins.  this should NOT happen. they made us work so hard to get it out from a kick in, and we let them run it thru the corridor

We dont look dangerous entering f50 - even when we have a break, and a numbers advantage.  we just dont score easily, its always tough work.

other teams have worked out that centre clearances are our strenght, and they are stopping it (sometimes borderline illegally with cameron just grabbing pitto at each bounce, and crippa and walsh being faceguarded),  but it is working.  even allowing the pies to walk away with easy possessions, when the clearance didnt go our way

still like to lay some blame on umpiring (cox with 4 touches, 2 being bsht frees and one being that "mark"....   charlie didnt play well, but wasnt helped by being blocked and held off the ball, every time a chance to fly occurred.....)  and some lucky (for them) and unlucky (for us) bounces...........
Opposition are quicker so usually on the slingshot rebound we have little hope of catching them and are relying on a poor entry or Weitering performing a miracle and having to beat 2-3 players.
We mess around with the ball with our forward entries and over possess too much wasting time because we dont have the runners and get caught on the turnover, its rare for us to lose the stoppage stats and to have less possessions than our opponents but we dont get the rewards with poor kicking for goal or one handpass or kick too many in the chain and then turn it over.

Re: AFL Rd 21 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #122 –
Quote from: 31Tommys_barber – on
Maybe it’s time for Charlie to become Kouta like and not a stay at home full forward.

+1.

Been saying that - swap Harry, Charlie and Martin around,

Harry goes deeper...Martin closer to goal and Charlie in Martin's high half forward role.

Re: AFL Rd 21 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #123 –
Quote from: pinot – on
+1.

Been saying that - swap Harry, Charlie and Martin around,

Harry goes deeper...Martin closer to goal and Charlie in Martin's high half forward role.
Charlie has been leading goalkicker twice, other teams will love seeing him away from goal.....a few losses doesnt mean we have to change the spine of the team and mess with what has been working.
Charlie has got a bit casual/careless and needs to get back to doing better with second efforts and traditional FF craft, if we need him wandering down back to take a mark then there is something wrong imo. Our defense will never be as good as other teams without a decent CHB and a few more defenders who actually defend so we need to kick more goals which means Charlie and Harry leading the way.
Martin is a cameo player, against certain teams moving him to FF might be a good shock move but having him as a regular target at FF will only lead to more injuries having to play on bigger stronger units and more bodies to contend with. I prefer him sneaking around the periphery and being the player who gets out the back or leads up when our main forwards are covered and is that third unassuming target teams forget about.

Re: AFL Rd 21 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #124 –
We've tinkered too much with what we had that was good and broken it, without fixing what was fundamentally wrong.

You don't weaken one area of your game to make another area strong, trying to do that is a losing strategy, it has been since Sun Tzu was a boy. The winning strategy is to either look at what your opponents strengths are and make them weaker, or make your own weakness stronger, but never by weakening yourself in the process.

We've been weakening our strengths to try and patch various weaknesses, it's a dead end stat driven nightmare.

We have a monster F50, quite possibly the best in the AFL, a monster A-Grade loaded Midfield, and two genuine A-Grade ruck options, and we've burnt all 3 areas of our strengths trying to patch a defensive and ball use weakness.

We win(or at least were winning) plenty of stoppage footy in our D50, in fact we win plenty of stoppage footy across the whole field, but we turn it over with largely un-forced disposal errors either by execution or decisions.

Leave the F50 strong, leave the Mids strong, leave the Ruck strong, stop the basic errors and we win.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: AFL Rd 21 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #125 –
We must stop putting the aggott on Charlie's head... nine times out of ten the fifty defenders have plenty of time to come at him and spoil.

Charlie looks most threatening when he moves about, a lot; when he has the chance to run onto the aggott... not standing still waiting for spoiling fists to arrive. And that's what I believe is all he has to do... move about a lot more and prevent the opposition from getting multiple bodies in to spoil him... also gives him the chance to use his sublime skills to impact the forward line in multiple areas linking up with others, which potentially helps to bring smaller forwards into the game as well. Not rocket science.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: AFL Rd 21 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #126 –
Some people will give Saad votes, but he had a Barry Crocker, I wouldn't guess but I suspect a significant percentage of Saad's own possessions were fixing his feck ups. He'll get credit for that and he'll get votes, but it burns opportunities, by the time he's fixed things the opposition are set and we can't score.

In recent weeks he has defended well, but his ball use has become Boweresque, the fans need to lay off the Whoosh as it's gone to his head.

Players 5m away from the nearest opponent(or anybody) dropping chest marks, sure they clean it up but the wasted seconds are terminal.

Blokes in unhindered clear space tripping over the footy, nobody in the vicinity, pick the fecking thing up before anything else!

"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: AFL Rd 21 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #127 –
Quote from: LP – on
Charlie in D50, or Harry in the Ruck and D50, is a win for the opposition not a win for us.

It's pointless fans complaining that we had 1 goal between them, when they are in range of goals.

We took a clear A-Grade strength, and turned it into a B-Grade weakness.

All those "terrific 1st Qtr I50s", barely crossed the 50m line, it's a lie of statistics, our entries were shallow and wide and largely ineffective.

Don't let the facts get in the way of a good story.
Charlie got 100% of his possessions in our forward half.
Harry got 77% of his in the the forward half as well.

As for the 1st quarter inside 50's....shallow, wide or otherwise, we managed to turn them into scores. So not sure what your beef is with statistics. Your argument works against you.....but as Tom Jones will tell you "Thats not unusual..."

Re: AFL Rd 21 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #128 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
Don't let the facts get in the way of a good story.
Charlie got 100% of his possessions in our forward half.
Harry got 77% of his in the the forward half as well.
Forward half at the MCG can be +80m from goal at the spine, +100m if you are out at the boundary.

@Thryleon has already explained to you, as have I on many occasions, why there is nothing wrong with the numbers. It's how they are interpreted and the meaning being applied to them by various people that can be completely bogus! ;)
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: AFL Rd 21 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #129 –
Curnow is one of our longest and most accurate kicks.
He doesn't need to be within 30-40 metres of the goal...especially if it's being lobbed on his head.
Our small forwards don't take a lot of advantage of balls spilled in front of goals.


Re: AFL Rd 21 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #130 –
Quote from: Lods – on
Curnow is one of our longest and most accurate kicks.
Accuracy and outcomes won't improve with distance and angle.

If either Charlie or Harry are "Home Alone" while the other roams D50 or rucks they are against 2 or 3 permanent defenders, it's pointless fans complaining they aren't kicking bags of goals because the root cause is obvious.

Expecting them to maintain high levels of accuracy out beyond 50m and in many cases from the boundary is ridiculous.

If you want them to mark the high ball closer to goal you have to generate one on one contests, you don't get that by leaving them alone against 2 or 3. 

If you want them to mark on the lead inside F50 you have to create space, you do that by having a 2nd genuine marking option drawing defenders and creating space, not by having the other genuine marking options watching on from 80m away!

If you went to Steven May and Jake Lever before a game against us, and said we will make sure that one of Charlie or Harry are 80m away every time the ball heads into our zone, they'd say, "Thank-you very much kind Sir for all your assistance!"

We have two genuine Coleman Medallists, and we are basically ruling a line through one or the other pretty much every other F50 entry, it's sheer stupidity.

We are doing this to ourselves!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: AFL Rd 21 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #131 –
Quote from: LP – on
Forward half at the MCG can be +80m from goal at the spine, +100m if you are out at the boundary.

@Thryleon has already explained to you, as have I on many occasions, why there is nothing wrong with the numbers. It's how they are interpreted and the meaning being applied to them by various people that can be completely bogus! ;)
Yeah, i've seen your explanations. I wouldn't be reminding everyone of them, i'm happy to repost them and all their inaccuracies if you wish. Not surprisngly you 'ostriched it' as usual.

As for where they got the ball, look at the AFL app, its there for all to see. Given you regularly want your key forwards leading up to the wing to provide a target coming out of defense, the fact its 100% and 77% inside forward half is remarkable. I'd expect that to be a lot less on a given day, especially since Harry was rucking as well.

Re: AFL Rd 21 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #132 –
Coaches' votes :

9 Patrick Cripps (CARL)
6 Scott Pendlebury (COLL)
5 Nick Daicos (COLL)
3 George Hewett (CARL)
3 Darcy Cameron (COLL)
2 Jeremy Howe (COLL)
1 Darcy Moore (COLL)
1 Jacob Weitering (CARL)

In a way, I'm super happy for Cripps. He deserves all the awards and success he gets. In another way, I really wish we had others taking votes off him. We had a great patch where we had contributions across the board. We now seem to have gone back to "No Cripps, Walsh, Weitering etc, no Carlton."

Re: AFL Rd 21 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #133 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
Don't let the facts get in the way of a good story.
Charlie got 100% of his possessions in our forward half.
Harry got 77% of his in the the forward half as well.
Quote from: kruddler – on
the fact its 100% and 77% inside F50 is remarkable. I'd expect that to be a lot less on a given day, especially since Harry was rucking as well.
Thanks for that.

Saves me going back to older posts to highlight your behaviour, you delivered this in just the space of 5 messages, and you do it all the time, making little tweaks to your "Facts" while asserting everybody else is posting crap!

I'll just keep quoting your messages for eternity and highlighting your "Facts" until people wake up to your gaslighting behaviour!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: AFL Rd 21 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #134 –
Quote from: LP – on
Thanks for that.

Saves me going back to older posts to highlight your behaviour, you delivered this in just the space of 5 messages, and you do it all the time, making little tweaks to your "Facts" while asserting everybody else is posting crap!

You've never made an error?
(You don't need to answer that, we know the answer)

If thats your big 'gotcha' moment, i feel sorry for you.

Again, don't make me bring up your 'facts' - ostrich.