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Re: VFL 2021 Rd 1: Carlton vs Box Hill at Carlton

Reply #60 –
Quote from: Baggers – on
Quote from: kruddler – on

You've answered your own question in these paragraphs.

White is not AFL ready, Evans is. I wouldn't have used picks on either, but rather McMahon due to the dearth of talent in the KPP on the senior list.

We have nobody of KP size between 22 and 26 apart from TDK our 1st choice ruck and Kemp who isn't actually a KPP.

McMahon fills a hole on our list and ticks some boxes.
Evans and White both fill a spot on our list, not a hole.


Nuh. We're going to have to agree to disagree - one of the beauties of humans with differing perspectives.

The powers-to-be saw Evans and White ahead of McMahon for a reason. And we can only speculate as to why, but they obviously had their reasons. In the fullness of time, Grasshopper, we may understand why ;) 
The powers at be got it wrong imo and we ended up playing an unfit Charlie Curnow due to zero alternatives who contributed nothing and not for the first time have we played an unfit Charlie.

Re: VFL 2021 Rd 1: Carlton vs Box Hill at Carlton

Reply #61 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Quote from: Baggers – on


Nuh. We're going to have to agree to disagree - one of the beauties of humans with differing perspectives.

The powers-to-be saw Evans and White ahead of McMahon for a reason. And we can only speculate as to why, but they obviously had their reasons. In the fullness of time, Grasshopper, we may understand why ;) 
The powers at be got it wrong imo and we ended up playing an unfit Charlie Curnow due to zero alternatives who contributed nothing and not for the first time have we played an unfit Charlie.

Yep, the powers that be are certainly not infallable, far from it. A fact they prove more often than i'd like.

Re: VFL 2021 Rd 1: Carlton vs Box Hill at Carlton

Reply #62 –
They've been wrong alot this season.  Thus far our most competent key forward of 2025 spent 3 quarters of the game against Richmond at cente half back.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: VFL 2021 Rd 1: Carlton vs Box Hill at Carlton

Reply #63 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Quote from: Baggers – on


Nuh. We're going to have to agree to disagree - one of the beauties of humans with differing perspectives.

The powers-to-be saw Evans and White ahead of McMahon for a reason. And we can only speculate as to why, but they obviously had their reasons. In the fullness of time, Grasshopper, we may understand why ;) 
The powers at be got it wrong imo and we ended up playing an unfit Charlie Curnow due to zero alternatives who contributed nothing and not for the first time have we played an unfit Charlie.


Whether or not the powers to be got it right or wrong is only something time will tell.
I suspect the issue with Charles is simply that he was fit to play, but hadn't played in a 'real' game for 6 months - so wasn't match fit and the only way to get him match fit is play him.
Then there's expectation. We expect Charles to be, well, Charles... to kick miracle goals and set the place alight. Personally, I didn't have that expectation... first game (as mentioned) in six months, all I was looking for was competitiveness and to get through the game unscathed.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: VFL 2021 Rd 1: Carlton vs Box Hill at Carlton

Reply #64 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on
They've been wrong alot this season.  Thus far our most competent key forward of 2025 spent 3 quarters of the game against Richmond at cente half back.
No argument here, 3 Leos.
But there are stated reasons and then our guesses and opinions. JSOS wanted to have a go down back - seemed reasonable, so we gave it a lash. And he did okay. However, with no Charles in that Tiggers game and a timid performance from H, and Kemp offering precious little we turned to JSOS... and were reminded of his importance to our side and his footy IQ and passion for the jumper when he arrived back where he should probably stay.
Seems to me, and I hope I'm right, we're playing the long game - experimenting. But if I'm wrong, then we're in strife.
My fear is that we're one-dimensional (contested/pressure game only) and lacking offensive/creative quick ball movement and run getting the aggott to the outside... which brings other blokes into the game.
My bigger fear is that without Crippa and TDK we'd be right royally rooted the way we play at present.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: VFL 2021 Rd 1: Carlton vs Box Hill at Carlton

Reply #65 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on

The powers at be got it wrong imo and we ended up playing an unfit Charlie Curnow due to zero alternatives who contributed nothing and not for the first time have we played an unfit Charlie.

Yep, the powers that be are certainly not infallable, far from it. A fact they prove more often than i'd like.

More often than any of us would like. We seem to be the masters of inconsistency, in quarters, games and even in seasons. Though, to be fair, we're reasonably consistent with where we finish at seasons end ...6-12.
Reality:
The very best and most accurate feedback you get in a game is the scoreboard.
The very best and most accurate feedback you get in any season, at any stage, is your ladder position and %. At this moment we're 12th.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: VFL 2021 Rd 1: Carlton vs Box Hill at Carlton

Reply #66 –
A lot of the talk from Voss and others seem to be along "the staying the path" lines.
At the moment there is also a bit of "it's not where we want to be, Not how we want to be defined"
So we're falling short of the plan and expectations

I suspect there is a style and level of play they aspire to that they feel will be successful and that requires an emphasis on certain types of players at the expense of others.
The selection of certain players over others seems bizarre in some (many) cases.
Supporters are banging their heads on the wall at some of the selections.

But these aren't dumb men.
Some have more football experience in their little fingers than we have in our whole bodies.
They wouldn't get, and retain jobs, without that knowledge and experience.
So we have to assume there is a 'cunning' plan...It looks vastly different to other clubs just at the moment, and has been derailed to a large extent in the last 12 months by a lack of avalability.

For a plan to work it needs not only the blueprint but also the structure which develops over a period of consistency and a group playing together.
I don't know why they would go for players like Evans and White over a McMahon.
I would have gone for Mc Mahon.
I have real doubts that makes me a smarter football operator than Austin

I doubt they flipped a coin.
The boys might have pictures of the MC and Austin in  compromising positions.
I suspect it was more a case of watching all of them over a period of months and assessing multiple aspects of their make-up and how they could contribute to a long term plan.

Will that plan lead to success.
A lot will depend on the buy-in by players.
They have to believe.
It will also depend to a very large extent on luck, especially with injuries.
A settled group, close to full strength and playing multiple games together is a big part of the recipe.

But there is one thing that impacts on any plan.
And that is time.
It's not infinite, and the current coaching/recruiting group have used up a fair bit.
Injuries last year were a solid reason for our falling away.
It's not an excuse that gets a second run.
Making the eight is the bare minimum.
Otherwise it'll be time for the next 'cunning' plan.
(Perhaps Blackadder as coach and Baldrick to do the  recruiting) :D

Re: VFL 2021 Rd 1: Carlton vs Box Hill at Carlton

Reply #67 –
I think the cunning plan is to recruit players to improve our best 22 or put pressure on those who are borderline best 22.

Which isn't a terrible idea.

Problem is, it seems to be coming at the expense of depth on other areas. Which is very much exposed when you get injuries in the wrong areas. It's a crap shoot.

Small/medium forward is an area of weakness, so we keep adding small forwards to give us options there.
Williams
Motlop
E. Hollands
Cottrell
Fogarty
Durdin
Evans
White
Moir

Meanwhile at key forward...
Harry
Charlie
Kemp/sos
.....and players who haven't played a game and honestly most never will.

We can get 5 injuries at small/medium forward before we start to get worried.
We can't get 1 injury at key forward before we are in strife.

Re: VFL 2021 Rd 1: Carlton vs Box Hill at Carlton

Reply #68 –
After two rounds and not a huge sample size - points against + clearances + stoppages + contested football is top four and only GWS is better.

 

Re: VFL 2021 Rd 1: Carlton vs Box Hill at Carlton

Reply #69 –
Quote from: pinot – on
After two rounds and not a huge sample size - points against + clearances + stoppages + contested football is top four and only GWS is better.



It is a little strange, isn't it.
Statistically we were superior to Richmond in most important areas
We matched it with the Hawks

But there was one glaring area of weakness
"Efficiency"

Re: VFL 2021 Rd 1: Carlton vs Box Hill at Carlton

Reply #70 –
Quote from: Lods – on
Quote from: pinot – on
After two rounds and not a huge sample size - points against + clearances + stoppages + contested football is top four and only GWS is better.



It is a little strange, isn't it.
Statistically we were superior to Richmond in most important areas
We matched it with the Hawks

But there was one glaring area of weakness
"Efficiency"

And there you have it, Principal LODS dances down the pitch and doesn't hit it out of the G, he lands the cherry 3 suburbs away!

So, how come? Every single player on our list knows how to be efficient and most are capable of doing so, so why are they being so inefficient?
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: VFL 2021 Rd 1: Carlton vs Box Hill at Carlton

Reply #71 –
Quote from: Lods – on
Quote from: pinot – on
After two rounds and not a huge sample size - points against + clearances + stoppages + contested football is top four and only GWS is better.



It is a little strange, isn't it.
Statistically we were superior to Richmond in most important areas
We matched it with the Hawks

But there was one glaring area of weakness
"Efficiency"

Definitely is - foundation of tough, defensive contested football is there early in the season.

Now its up to the players to stay durable and some tweaks  to ball movement. Zac, Saad, Cerra and Gov should be designated players delivering ball inside 50 and efficiency will also improve when Charlie is match fit and H returns from illness.

Re: VFL 2021 Rd 1: Carlton vs Box Hill at Carlton

Reply #72 –
Quote from: pinot – on
After two rounds and not a huge sample size - points against + clearances + stoppages + contested football is top four and only GWS is better.

This is why you don't make knee jerk reactions and declaire 'season over' after round 2.

Lions had a worse start, and were playing worse, this time last year and won the flag.

Stay the course. The tide will turn.

Re: VFL 2021 Rd 1: Carlton vs Box Hill at Carlton

Reply #73 –
I dont think its comparable.  They were coming off a grand final close loss, they played good teams to start the year only losing against freo in freo who weren't a finalist and Collingwood at home (mental scars).  Everyone else played finals, and when they came against an easy beat in North knocked the stuffing out of them.  

They also have the gabba which is a relative fortress which gives them a mental edge and they win at most of the time. 

Thats not to say our season is done, but that tigers loss is one that can severely hurt you later because it dot points your fragility as a team against a poor side who brought the heat.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: VFL 2021 Rd 1: Carlton vs Box Hill at Carlton

Reply #74 –
Quote from: Lods – on
Quote from: pinot – on
After two rounds and not a huge sample size - points against + clearances + stoppages + contested football is top four and only GWS is better.



It is a little strange, isn't it.
Statistically we were superior to Richmond in most important areas
We matched it with the Hawks

But there was one glaring area of weakness
"Efficiency"
You get that when your players cant hit targets especially under pressure and the default game plan is bomb it on the heads of our forwards. We dont have many good kicks in the team and thats been the case for a while and some of our better players are in that category....