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Topic: AFL Rd 4 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood (Read 16229 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: AFL Rd 4 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #135 –
Cant have senior players avoiding contests, Doc is as brave as they come so its not questioning his character but he has lost all confidence attacking the ball and Zac Williams is  another serial offender in that area.
It's non negotiable and usually a sign of clubs hitting rock bottom when players won't commit the body to get the ball and both need a spell in the twos to sort it out.

Re: AFL Rd 4 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #136 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Cant have senior players avoiding contests, Doc is as brave as they come so its not questioning his character but he has lost all confidence attacking the ball and Zac Williams is  another serial offender in that area.
It's non negotiable and usually a sign of clubs hitting rock bottom when players won't commit the body to get the ball and both need a spell in the twos to sort it out.

Although I agree with you, EB1... you know our MC - stubborn and conservative. They want minimal changes in this quest for a stable line-up. Even if it means playing out of form blokes on reputation only.

If you're flagrantly inconsistent and lacking mental toughness yet stick with the blokes delivering that (to create a stable group), guess what you get more of!
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: AFL Rd 4 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #137 –
Once again  this is a bit of a balance thing.

Dropping Docherty after a 27 disoposal game would be the sign of a hard, ruthless club.
(Not sure that's us, but we'll see)

Who would be the target audience for the move though.
You wouldn't do it to look good for the supporters

No, the target would be the players.
"If you don't commit 100% this could be your fate."
The unknown would be... what would be the response from the players.
Would they see it as fair or believe there were others more deserving of banishment.
It's one of those moves that could pay off in a big way....or it could cause a huge rift.

I'm not suggesting they don't do it, just that the consequences may not be what they expect.


Re: AFL Rd 4 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #138 –
Quote from: Lods – on
Once again  this is a bit of a balance thing.

Dropping Docherty after a 27 disoposal game would be the sign of a hard, ruthless club.
(Not sure that's us, but we'll see)

Who would be the target audience for the move though.
You wouldn't do it to look good for the supporters

No, the target would be the players.
"If you don't commit 100% this could be your fate."
The unknown would be... what would be the response from the players.
Would they see it as fair or believe there were others more deserving of banishment.
It's one of those moves that could pay off in a big way....or it could cause a huge rift.

I'm not suggesting they don't do it, just that the consequences may not be what they expect.




I actually don't believe there's any chance they'll drop Doc.

I suspect that with Cowan likely out, they'll be conservative with the outs.

The Haynes experiment is not doing well... but who do you replace him with?

Motlop and Fogarty are both defensively focussed and too slow over the grass, which is not good for small forwards. White was the only small forward who is quick over the grass and good with ball in hand, and could easily have finished with a couple of goals. If Durds has a good game this evening he could easily replace Fog or Motlop giving the forward line more leg speed.

I doubt Moir will get a gig for Saturday night against the Weagles... so who replaces him?
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: AFL Rd 4 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #139 –
I’m not a fan of dropping kids after 1 game, even Boyd and Evans for that matter.
The exception being they come in to cover a 1 week injury and or embarrass themselves.
I’d be pumping Moir all week on what he did right and where he needs to lift but I’d be keeping him in for 4-6 weeks and if not up to the pace then send him back to the VFL with KPI’s to be met.
Let’s go BIG !

Re: AFL Rd 4 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #140 –
I don't recall anyone saying this yet (apologies if i've missed it) but we all agree that Cripps had a poor game. Hey, he is allowed to and certainly due. But has everyone forgotten that he got hurt last week and was struggling to walk.
There was talk about a coccyx, personally i thought it was a hip, may even be ribs. In any event, he went down hard last week and put in a poor one this week. It could be a coincidence, but it might not be.

Do we dare think about resting him?
Or do we do the carlton thing and run them into the ground until we REALLY break them and join there dozen mates on the sidelines.

Re: AFL Rd 4 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #141 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
I don't recall anyone saying this yet (apologies if i've missed it) but we all agree that Cripps had a poor game. Hey, he is allowed to and certainly due. But has everyone forgotten that he got hurt last week and was struggling to walk.
There was talk about a coccyx, personally i thought it was a hip, may even be ribs. In any event, he went down hard last week and put in a poor one this week. It could be a coincidence, but it might not be.

Do we dare think about resting him?
Or do we do the carlton thing and run them into the ground until we REALLY break them and join there dozen mates on the sidelines.
Id rest Docherty but play Cripps, a loss vs WC might be a trigger for stupidity and coach sacking etc.
We need to win the game to give a bit of breathing space , it's not about premiership points but getting a bit of confidence back in the lineup.
Id persist with Moir and build his confidence, don't like in one week out next week selection policies....

Re: AFL Rd 4 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #142 –
I’m open to giving Cripps a week off if that will help him.

Edit:
I’m open to Cripps having as long as he needs, to get him right.
Let’s go BIG !

Re: AFL Rd 4 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #143 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
There was talk about a coccyx, personally i thought it was a hip, may even be ribs. In any event, he went down hard last week and put in a poor one this week. It could be a coincidence, but it might not be.

The Coccyx talk was just me being silly.
He landed heavily on his back and it probably winded him, he did seem to have a bit of a limp after so he may have hurt his hip...but whether there was any damage that carried over to this week is hard to know.
Some posters have mentioned a bit of padding on him, and he does seem to lack a bit of his usual explosiveness.

But they won't rest him.

I didn't think Moir should have been selected but if you're going to pick these young guys, then one match in next match out isn't very productive in terms of experience or education.
The problem will be that there is likely to be some selection pressure from tonight's VFL game so he may not get that second chance...this time.
 

Re: AFL Rd 4 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #144 –
It is a bit hard for a player like Moir to do well when the ball is down the other end all night and when we come forward the ball movement is slow and the kicks are high and without penertration. I am assuming Boyd will come in for Cowan. I would bring in Wilson for Haynes but I think they are hoping Carroll will come up. I would like to see Wilson up around the middle to give us some pace and I would like to see Binns given a go. The other guy is Lemmey. Motlop has been good around the ball whereas Cerra and Walsh have been pretty ineffective.

Re: AFL Rd 4 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #145 –
Quote from: Lods – on
Quote from: kruddler – on
There was talk about a coccyx, personally i thought it was a hip, may even be ribs. In any event, he went down hard last week and put in a poor one this week. It could be a coincidence, but it might not be.

The Coccyx talk was just me being silly.
He landed heavily on his back and it probably winded him, he did seem to have a bit of a limp after so he may have hurt his hip...but whether there was any damage that carried over to this week is hard to know.
Some posters have mentioned a bit of padding on him, and he does seem to lack a bit of his usual explosiveness.

But they won't rest him.

I didn't think Moir should have been selected but if you're going to pick these young guys, then one match in next match out isn't very productive in terms of experience or education.
The problem will be that there is likely to be some selection pressure from tonight's VFL game so he may not get that second chance...this time.

I knew you said Coccyx, but i wasn't sure if you'd heard something or just throwing it out there. Nothing from the club so we are left to simply speculate. Wonder how many weeks before the club do something. Even captain courageous can't put in too many stinkers.

I think the fact the cupboard is so bare means the chance of resting him are next to nothing. That being said, a lot returning to the VFL this week, so may not be as bare as it was.
Still the difference in talent between the players in the AFL side and the players in the VFL side is ridiculously huge at present which is a big worry for our season.....and for our coach.

Moir selection was one that i thought we couldn't lose on.
Pick him and if he plays well its a win.
Pick him and he plays well then the MC was justified not picking him sooner.
Now the trick is what to do with him. Do we double down or do we go back to Evans.
Output wise says Evans.
Development wise says Moir.

Re: AFL Rd 4 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #146 –
I'm with many of you good folk - persist with Moir. I'd also persist with Lord and White.

Though it won't happen, I'd drop Haynes and Fogarty, with Doc the sub. I'd also drop Young, but the MC will want relief for TDK.

I hope a good number of senior players do well in the Magoos and demand consideration... But we all know our MC, conservative and stubborn.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: AFL Rd 4 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #147 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Cant have senior players avoiding contests, Doc is as brave as they come so its not questioning his character but he has lost all confidence attacking the ball and Zac Williams is  another serial offender in that area.
It's non negotiable and usually a sign of clubs hitting rock bottom when players won't commit the body to get the ball and both need a spell in the twos to sort it out.
I guess when you have done 3 knees and a couple of bouts of cancer, the fear of injury at the next contest is amplified. I think Doc's time to hang the boots up has come.
Williams is in the same boat, injury after injury has made affected his ability to compete hard for fear of another injury.
This game is brutal, if you cant compete hard and create a contest, youre finished at the elite level.
There may be more in the above boat on our list.
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership

Re: AFL Rd 4 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #148 –
Quote from: Blue Moon – on
It is a bit hard for a player like Moir to do well when the ball is down the other end all night and when we come forward the ball movement is slow and the kicks are high and without penertration.
Watch the game again and take note of Moir fwd of the ball carrier. In some instances, he is standing around, not sure what to do, not working to get to a spot giving the kicker something to kick to. He looked very poor and has a hell of a long way to go, he seemed lost.
It may be possible he isn't loving life hear in Melb away from family and may want to go home. Who knows.
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership

Re: AFL Rd 4 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Collingwood

Reply #149 –
Quote from: Lods – on
Quote from: kruddler – on
There was talk about a coccyx, personally i thought it was a hip, may even be ribs. In any event, he went down hard last week and put in a poor one this week. It could be a coincidence, but it might not be.

The Coccyx talk was just me being silly.
He landed heavily on his back and it probably winded him, he did seem to have a bit of a limp after so he may have hurt his hip...but whether there was any damage that carried over to this week is hard to know.
Some posters have mentioned a bit of padding on him, and he does seem to lack a bit of his usual explosiveness.

But they won't rest him.

I didn't think Moir should have been selected but if you're going to pick these young guys, then one match in next match out isn't very productive in terms of experience or education.
The problem will be that there is likely to be some selection pressure from tonight's VFL game so he may not get that second chance...this time.

SEN said it was a Coccyx when it did it during the game and then reported he was getting some work done on his Coccyx.   He hasnt looked the same since.