Interesting Reading

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Interesting Reading

April 10, 2025, 09:45:26 am

https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/other/from-the-pocket-carlton-s-problem-isn-t-psychological-or-fitness-it-s-competence-and-strategy/ar-AA1CArp7?ocid=msedgntp&pc=HCTS&cvid=4765d8ea01464c2aae70f7d633a94e9f&ei=9

Re: Interesting Reading

Reply #1 – April 10, 2025, 09:47:54 am

Been a lot of people saying just this on the site

Re: Interesting Reading

Reply #2 – April 10, 2025, 10:05:01 am

Quote from: Professer E – on April 10, 2025, 09:47:54 am

Been a lot of people saying just this on the site

I think the key difference with us is in that article as well, the quality & number of the players that the Cats had who were about to explode.

Re: Interesting Reading

Reply #3 – April 10, 2025, 10:24:22 am

Yep, I suspect our window peaked 2023

Re: Interesting Reading

Reply #4 – April 10, 2025, 10:28:36 am

Cats during that era had Ablett Junior , Bartel, Johnson, Corey, Chapman, Enright, Ling, Scarlett, King, Hawkins, Selwood, Mackie, Taylor and the list goes on - so any comparisons to our current sad state of affairs is miles apart

We have an older list and at best have 5-6 players who would get a game in that Geelong team and sadly our level of ability drops off sharply after.

Until we strengthened significantly our bottom end talent and do it fast this list build we will not compete with the best and waiting for it all to just click based on previous teams fortunes is fantasy talk.

Re: Interesting Reading

Reply #5 – April 10, 2025, 10:30:51 am

Surely our problem is the blokes we're forced to put on the park.

Harry missing creates a huge abyss in our structure and, try as they may; Kemp, Young or whoever else we may play as a key forward is not going to fill it - particularly when Charlie is going at half rat power.

Re: Interesting Reading

Reply #6 – April 10, 2025, 10:38:47 am

I doubt any of the current 18 teams have the depth of talent of that great Geelong era. Even the Hawks, who are flying now, have their fair share of role players.

Re: Interesting Reading

Reply #7 – April 10, 2025, 10:39:23 am

Quote from: Professer E – on April 10, 2025, 09:47:54 am

Been a lot of people saying just this on the site

Yep. Simply put - too stubborn. Even fixated on the one game day application and plan. This is where you'd hope that those around him would encourage flexibility, understanding the modern game, your players and their strengths (and playing them to those strengths), understanding nuance and plans b, c and d.

I really do worry for Vossy and his tenure. A stoic and relentless adherence to a single mode of play might be good in some applications, but not the modern AFL game - you see teams altering and tweaking game plans in games and week to week now. Who'd have thought a Ross Lyon coached side would be hitting the scoreboard more? Strategy flexibility and those adept at this seem to be prerequisites for the modern game. But two things don't change - on-field leadership and a high level of discipline.

Re: Interesting Reading

Reply #8 – April 10, 2025, 10:46:58 am

It's like playing golf with one club in the bag. We've got a one wood and nothing else.

Re: Interesting Reading

Reply #9 – April 10, 2025, 11:00:13 am

Past players and coaches have supported what this MSN article mentions: apply pressure, change the game and the Blues are found wanting and unable to respond with anything other than doing what they've been instructed to focus on... and when that stops working, confidence drops, we go into our shells, mistakes appear and so on.

Sadly, from the perspectives of those past players and coaches, we are easy to coach against. Absorb, counter - they fold.

Our players are much better than not be able to win a game. A number of sides above us on the ladder do not have the talent we have, but get the best out of their blokes, even when they incur injuries to key blokes and have to rely on the role players.

Talent wise, we are much better than our ladder position indicates. We just seem bereft of knowing how to adapt and adjust in-game and as I mentioned, the heads drop pretty quickly once the opposition ups the ante. Fitness is a non-issue.

Re: Interesting Reading

Reply #10 – April 10, 2025, 11:03:14 am

IMHO, our issues are more around injuries and skill errors. I'm not sure there is that much variation in game plan from one team to the next - there can't be that many ways of moving the ball from where it is to where you want it to be, and preventing the opposition from doing likewise. I suspect variations between teams are more about nuance and working with what you have.

Re: Interesting Reading

Reply #11 – April 10, 2025, 11:05:21 am

Quote from: Professer E – on April 10, 2025, 10:46:58 am

It's like playing golf with one club in the bag. We've got a one wood and nothing else.

Gee that's sharp, Professory. Yep, it might be one of the best/all purpose clubs in the bag... but... using it all the time aint gonna improve your handicap.

Re: Interesting Reading

Reply #12 – April 10, 2025, 11:19:51 am

Quote from: Baggers – on April 10, 2025, 11:00:13 am

Talent wise, we are much better than our ladder position indicates. We just seem bereft of knowing how to adapt and adjust in-game and as I mentioned, the heads drop pretty quickly once the opposition ups the ante. Fitness is a non-issue.

I don’t think that’s right Shane. We have crucial players out and others are out of form, lacking match fitness or aren’t quite up to AFL standard any more. The fringe players that go in and out of the team don’t have any impact and we lack the depth to replace out of form players. Then there’s our lack of experience; I believe Collingwood had 17 players with at least 100 AFL games, we had seven!

Many supporters were clamouring for Moir to get a game despite poor form in the VFL. Two touches and zero tackles in just under a whole game of footy suggests that he’s not up to it now, and possibly never will be.

We could persevere with him against the Eagles and he may do OK … or he could do another witch’s hat impression. Either way, it’s unlikely that he or his replacement will provide Vossy with the missing ingredient.

We need four quarters of decent footy from our midfielders, Harry back in the team and firing and Charlie to get over not having a pre-season … and 22 players fit enough to run out the game.

Re: Interesting Reading

Reply #13 – April 10, 2025, 11:41:20 am

Quote from: PaulP – on April 10, 2025, 11:03:14 am

IMHO, our issues are more around injuries and skill errors. I'm not sure there is that much variation in game plan from one team to the next - there can't be that many ways of moving the ball from where it is to where you want it to be, and preventing the opposition from doing likewise. I suspect variations between teams are more about nuance and working with what you have.

Yep, Pauly, we don't do nuance. We seem to be either stubborn adherence or throw the baby out with the bath water... and the latter may be approaching for Vossy (in the minds of some).

And working with what you have demands real skills and footy smarts... playing blokes to their strengths not trying to wedge and force blokes into what the game plan or system wants, and how long have we been bloody-minded in that approach? How often do some of our blokes seem to go backwards or stagnate? How can players develop if we have a one dimensional requirement from them? How often to we see creative types suddenly forced into a defensive mindset only? Some blokes are naturally defensively predisposed, well, these blokes will flourish in our system. Fog and Hewett to name a couple.

Indulge me for a tick. What happened to Cow's creative dash/take the game on? Are we using Ollie to his strengths? Small Durds had real flair when he arrived, now he delivers a thousand tackles a game and FA else! I've got no idea what we're trying to do with Motlop, he must be about the most confused kid in the game at present, it's like he has creative aspects to his game which have not at all been developed and honed. And what the hell are we doing with Walshy, almost looks a shadow of the ball winning, running machine we recruited? I bet you good folks could come up with other examples.

Sure there is a healthy balance between creative, offensive play and strong defensive applications, but we just seem absolutely incapable of getting that right, preferring to being stubbornly one or the other (zero nuance). Surely it begins with, as you mentioned Pauly, knowing what you're working with... developing natural strengths and abilities in the individuals at your club and coming up with a game plan that balances this with the long held values of our game: toughness, discipline, unity (same page), leadership and a ruthless commitment to winning - every contest, every qtr and every game. We began this season with quotes from key club people that losing is a reality and expecting losses... FO.

Re: Interesting Reading

Reply #14 – April 10, 2025, 11:50:24 am

Quote from: DJC – on April 10, 2025, 11:19:51 am

Quote from: Baggers – on April 10, 2025, 11:00:13 am
Talent wise, we are much better than our ladder position indicates. We just seem bereft of knowing how to adapt and adjust in-game and as I mentioned, the heads drop pretty quickly once the opposition ups the ante. Fitness is a non-issue.

I don’t think that’s right Shane. We have crucial players out and others are out of form, lacking match fitness or aren’t quite up to AFL standard any more. The fringe players that go in and out of the team don’t have any impact and we lack the depth to replace out of form players. Then there’s our lack of experience; I believe Collingwood had 17 players with at least 100 AFL games, we had seven!

Many supporters were clamouring for Moir to get a game despite poor form in the VFL. Two touches and zero tackles in just under a whole game of footy suggests that he’s not up to it now, and possibly never will be.

We could persevere with him against the Eagles and he may do OK … or he could do another witch’s hat impression. Either way, it’s unlikely that he or his replacement will provide Vossy with the missing ingredient.

We need four quarters of decent footy from our midfielders, Harry back in the team and firing and Charlie to get over not having a pre-season … and 22 players fit enough to run out the game.

We're going to have to agree to disagree on this one, David... or do we?

Are we getting the best out of our blokes? Are we playing them in the right positions?

I think our game-plan actually hampers some of our blokes and prevents their best being available?

So maybe I'll rephrase my comment that we have the talent/list, with these qualifiers, 1) playing our blokes to their strengths with a 2) game-plan that better enables that? This 'one size fits all' defensive mindset being shoehorned into every player just aint working.