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Poll

If an election were to be held on the 3rd May (likely) which party would recieve your vote.

Labor
[ 12 ] (48%)
LNP
[ 8 ] (32%)
Greens
[ 0 ] (0%)
Teal Independent
[ 1 ] (4%)
One Nation
[ 0 ] (0%)
Trumpet of Patriots
[ 1 ] (4%)
Local Independent
[ 3 ] (12%)
None of the Above
[ 0 ] (0%)

Total Members Voted: 25

Topic: Election 2025 (Poll added) (Read 37669 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)

Reply #180 –
Quote from: DJC – on
I don’t begrudge politicians their pensions - most earn it and then some.  However, I’m not sure that they should get their pension while working as a lobbyist or consultant on the basis of contacts and knowledge gained as an MP.

I’m not sure how it could be managed but I’d like to see the double-dipping eliminated; pension or salary, but not both.
As @Baggers points out regarding corporate wages, it's the case that most politicians would have made more money if they stayed out of politics.

It's one of the big problems that keeps younger people out of politics, it doesn't make financial sense for young people to be in the gig it becomes very costly over a lifetime. They must sacrifice the period of high performance life that is/was potentially most profitable for them.

We are not talking about average wage earners, we are talking about high performance individuals, the type we need and want running the country.

I get your perspective, but I'd assert it a perspective coloured by the perception of single issue placeholders who aren't really ever candidates for the biggest roles in government.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)

Reply #181 –
I read it as a big win for Ley today, having Price pull the plug on running for deputy, it probably also spells the end for Price leaving her homeless on that side of politics as it alienates her supporters.

I don't think it's possible in the current political situation for these "Liberals" to hunker down and ride out the next few years before resurfacing, there won't be anything left to surface into! To get back they now have to destroy what remains from the inside, and that is counterproductive. They aren't Little Johnny, and it's not 1999, he could only do what he did because he was only failing by narrow margins.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)

Reply #182 –
Quote from: LP – on
Quote from: DJC – on
I don’t begrudge politicians their pensions - most earn it and then some.  However, I’m not sure that they should get their pension while working as a lobbyist or consultant on the basis of contacts and knowledge gained as an MP.

I’m not sure how it could be managed but I’d like to see the double-dipping eliminated; pension or salary, but not both.
As @Baggers points out regarding corporate wages, it's the case that most politicians would have made more money if they stayed out of politics.

It's one of the big problems that keeps younger people out of politics, it doesn't make financial sense for young people to be in the gig it becomes very costly over a lifetime. They must sacrifice the period of high performance life that is/was potentially most profitable for them.

We are not talking about average wage earners, we are talking about high performance individuals, the type we need and want running the country.

I get your perspective, but I'd assert it a perspective coloured by the perception of single issue placeholders who aren't really ever candidates for the biggest roles in government.

I have worked closely with senior Victorian State Government Ministers from the ALP, Liberals and Nationals and I do appreciate how hard they work and the tremendous responsibility they carry.  That responsibility is generally far greater than that borne by a corporate CEO on significantly more money and who is concerned mainly with profits rather than biosecurity, biodiversity, equitable access to health, housing, education, and other issues that may have huge repercussions if not handled well.

The Commonwealth has restrictions on how soon after leaving parliament, former MPs and Senators can work as lobbyists in areas related to their portfolios or with individuals and organisations they dealt with while in parliament.  I don't believe that the States and Territories have similar requirements but the USA and Canada have a five year "cooling off" period.  Once that time limit is up, it's open slather and we have Scott Morrison sitting on the board of DYME Maritime, a capital fund that invests in AUKUS and, of course, the Morrison government formed the AUKUS alliance.  On the other side of the fence, former Labor Defence Minister Joel Fitzgibbon is a registered lobbyist for Serco, a British multinational defence, health, space, justice, migration, customer services, and transport company.  I don't believe that Morrison or Fitzgibbon would have those roles if it wasn't for their parliamentary service and the contacts they made with the ADF, public servants and defence industries.  In other words, Morrison, Fitzgibbon, Joe Hockey, Peter McGuaran, Marise Payne, Christopher Pyne, and many others are well paid to take advantage of contacts made while in parliament and are drawing substantial parliamentary pensions at the same time. 

Then there's the classic case of Andrew Robb who, as Minister for Trade and Investment, approved Shandong Landbridge Group lease of Port Darwin.  Robb was employed by Shandong Landbridge on $880,000 per year as soon as he left parliament.

Kevin Rudd is apparently drawing half of his parliamentary pension to top up the estimated $350K he receives as our US Ambassador.

I don't have a problem with the substantial parliamentary pensions - they're well-deserved - and I don't have a problem with former politicians working as lobbyists or for companies they may have dealt with in an official capacity, after a suitable cooling off period (closer to 5 years than 18 months).  I do have an issue with former politicians drawing on their parliamentary pension while occupying highly paid positions, and particularly when they're paid out of the public purse. 
It's still the Gulf of Mexico, Don Old!

Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)

Reply #183 –
Quote from: LP – on
Quote from: Baggers – on
True enough 3 Leos. However, many folks once getting into six figure salaries -- and of course, 7 figure salaries -- are no longer working 38 or so hours per week. They're owned by their job and often find themselves working 7 days per week, and 12-16 hr days are not uncommon. One of the chief reasons this little black duck got out of the corporate -- same for pollies -- sector... my first marriage was a casualty - never home! Those who chase huge salaries may very well get it... but they'll eventually pay for it.
The public have no idea of the price paid by career politicians, the public only see the gravy, the media only report the gravy.

Most people, nearly all people, could not handle it, it's 24/7.
Been involved. You're right. People have no idea what they go through.

Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)

Reply #184 –
How farken long does it take to count a few envelopes? Some seats still unknown FFS. What do they do, walking in at 9am, make coffee, scratch their nether regions, talk footy, make another coffee, count one ballot paper, make another coffee, talk more crap, go for lunch, get pissed not come back, start fresh tomorrow?
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership

Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)

Reply #185 –
AEC reckons about 5 weeks from the election for Calwell. With a 4 way count and 14 candidates, it's complicated. Also with scrutineers looking at everything vote, takes a lot of time.

Apparently with more people preferencing the majors, rather than voting directly for them this will happen more often.

Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)

Reply #186 –
Quote from: Gointocarlton – on
How farken long does it take to count a few envelopes? Some seats still unknown FFS. What do they do, walking in at 9am, make coffee, scratch their nether regions, talk footy, make another coffee, count one ballot paper, make another coffee, talk more crap, go for lunch, get pissed not come back, start fresh tomorrow?

All votes in every electorate are counted three times with the last count involving a full preference allocation.  That's every preference allocated and re-allocated until all votes are assigned to the two leading candidates.  The parties have scrutineers who watch the allocation of preferences and can question the validity of votes and preferences so it can be a very lengthy process.

 If there's less than 100 votes between the first and second candidates, a full recount of all formal and informal ballot papers is always conducted.

The AEC is also required by law to wait until 13 days after the poll for all "declaration votes" to be allocated to the correct electorate.

We have one of the most complex and time-consuming vote counting operations.  The AEC says that the process must be right, not rushed, and I'm happy with that.
It's still the Gulf of Mexico, Don Old!

Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)

Reply #187 –
Quote from: DJC – on
Quote from: Gointocarlton – on
How farken long does it take to count a few envelopes? Some seats still unknown FFS. What do they do, walking in at 9am, make coffee, scratch their nether regions, talk footy, make another coffee, count one ballot paper, make another coffee, talk more crap, go for lunch, get pissed not come back, start fresh tomorrow?

All votes in every electorate are counted three times with the last count involving a full preference allocation.  That's every preference allocated and re-allocated until all votes are assigned to the two leading candidates.  The parties have scrutineers who watch the allocation of preferences and can question the validity of votes and preferences so it can be a very lengthy process.

 If there's less than 100 votes between the first and second candidates, a full recount of all formal and informal ballot papers is always conducted.

The AEC is also required by law to wait until 13 days after the poll for all "declaration votes" to be allocated to the correct electorate.

We have one of the most complex and time-consuming vote counting operations.  The AEC says that the process must be right, not rushed, and I'm happy with that.


It would be much simpler if we just did away with the preferential system and made it first past the post.

I could vote for Trumpet of Patriots
Then  give my second preference to One Nation
Then my third vote to the Liberal party

All I've done is wasted time.
My vote has still ended up with the LNP
And in the majority of cases its the Labor/Lib where the election is decided.

The preferential system allows us to feel we're making a difference, even sending a message in the form of a protest vote.
But in the end it really doesn't matter.

Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)

Reply #188 –
First past the post doesn't get a majority representation:

eg:
34% vote LNP
33% vote Labor
33% vote other

LNP gets in, yet 66% of the people don't want them.  Yes, it would change the way people vote (esp 33% other), but then there is little prospect of changing the 2 party system that we currently have.

Your example of preference voting is, as you pointed out also the benefit of preference voting in that you have ultimately got your preference, but you have told them that they have a lot of room to improve!  The difference it makes is dependent on the politicians - not a lot of talent, so little difference.

Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)

Reply #189 –
State government just approved $380M upgrade for the F1 garages next year’s race.

Yet hospital funding is slashed.

Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)

Reply #190 –
Had it been first past the post in this election the results would have been pretty much the same as it has actually turned out.
Labor would still have an absolute majority but a couple fewer seats.
Libs would have a few more.
Greens would have one and the independents (Teals Katter etc) around 7 or 8.

Not a lot of difference but a much simpler and more quickly declared poll

Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)

Reply #191 –
Quote from: Lods – on
Quote from: DJC – on


All votes in every electorate are counted three times with the last count involving a full preference allocation.  That's every preference allocated and re-allocated until all votes are assigned to the two leading candidates.  The parties have scrutineers who watch the allocation of preferences and can question the validity of votes and preferences so it can be a very lengthy process.

 If there's less than 100 votes between the first and second candidates, a full recount of all formal and informal ballot papers is always conducted.

The AEC is also required by law to wait until 13 days after the poll for all "declaration votes" to be allocated to the correct electorate.

We have one of the most complex and time-consuming vote counting operations.  The AEC says that the process must be right, not rushed, and I'm happy with that.


It would be much simpler if we just did away with the preferential system and made it first past the post.

I could vote for Trumpet of Patriots
Then  give my second preference to One Nation
Then my third vote to the Liberal party

All I've done is wasted time.
My vote has still ended up with the LNP
And in the majority of cases its the Labor/Lib where the election is decided.

The preferential system allows us to feel we're making a difference, even sending a message in the form of a protest vote.
But in the end it really doesn't matter.
re your last line. You could say that no matter who you vote for.

I think DJC is right though.
You can send a message without it having any effect right now.....but hopefully in the future it will.

The system is a good one.
The process needs to be sped up.
The electronic voting option would speed up the process plenty, but it creates trust issues and opens up for potential hacking.

At the end of the day, does it matter how long it takes to count the votes? Does it have a big chance to our day to day lives in any way?

Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)

Reply #192 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
Quote from: Lods – on


It would be much simpler if we just did away with the preferential system and made it first past the post.

I could vote for Trumpet of Patriots
Then  give my second preference to One Nation
Then my third vote to the Liberal party

All I've done is wasted time.
My vote has still ended up with the LNP
And in the majority of cases its the Labor/Lib where the election is decided.

The preferential system allows us to feel we're making a difference, even sending a message in the form of a protest vote.
But in the end it really doesn't matter.
re your last line. You could say that no matter who you vote for.

I think DJC is right though.
You can send a message without it having any effect right now.....but hopefully in the future it will.

The system is a good one.
The process needs to be sped up.
The electronic voting option would speed up the process plenty, but it creates trust issues and opens up for potential hacking.

At the end of the day, does it matter how long it takes to count the votes? Does it have a big chance to our day to day lives in any way?

It hasn't this time because the  result was pretty clear cut.
But if government was dependent on a few votes in a number of seats, that chopped and changed as postals and absentees rolled in it might cause a bit more grief.
Eventually we will have some sort of automated system that gives us a result within minutes of polls closing but just at the moment the security issues would be a bit too difficult to overcome.

Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)

Reply #193 –
Quote from: Lods – on
Had it been first past the post in this election the results would have been pretty much the same as it has actually turned out.
Labor would still have an absolute majority but a couple fewer seats.
Libs would have a few more.
Greens would have one and the independents (Teals Katter etc) around 7 or 8.

Not a lot of difference but a much simpler and more quickly declared poll

Thanks Lods - I should be working, but these trigger me, so I need to have a look... :))

In Vic, if it was first past the post, there would be 5 less ALP seats and 1 less Independent.  These are replaced by first past the post - 5 LNP and 1 Greens.  Give me a couple of days, and I am sure that I will need a distraction/procrastination tool to look at the other states!  There was only one seat in Vic where first past the post got >50% of the vote.
 

Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)

Reply #194 –
Quote from: dodge – on
There was only one seat in Vic where first past the post got >50% of the vote.
The situation is going to get dramatically worse, because the ballot box is being deliberately manipulated.

We might get to the point where we need two rounds of voting, the first to separate the wheat from the chaff, the second to elect the victor. This would at least stop the current situation where pseudo-candidates are nominated to deliberately diffuse the vote on spurious single issue platforms.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"