Carlton Supporters Club

I only point out its a frustration.  Does he break down more or less than the others?  How does he stack up next to his peers?   Who can we logically compare him to?

Its like Jack Martin.  His ability, and capability was fine, but at some point reliability becomes the issue.  Both Gov and Williams suffer from lack of reliability.

I only point out its a frustration.  Does he break down more or less than the others?  How does he stack up next to his peers?   Who can we logically compare him to?

Its like Jack Martin.  His ability, and capability was fine, but at some point reliability becomes the issue.  Both Gov and Williams suffer from lack of reliability.

Quote from: Thryleon – on June 12, 2025, 10:31:59 am

I only point out its a frustration.  Does he break down more or less than the others?  How does he stack up next to his peers?   Who can we logically compare him to?

Its like Jack Martin.  His ability, and capability was fine, but at some point reliability becomes the issue.  Both Gov and Williams suffer from lack of reliability.

There will always be some player that breaks down more than an other, its statistically certain.
On the same scale, the opposite is true.
For every Jimmy Stynes, there is a Luke Livingston.

Can a club predict who does what and when. No.
Do they have some kind of idea? Potentially.

Look at Charlie, missed years of footy, then barely missed since.
Similar with Doc.

Cripps broke his leg early, has barely missed since.

There is no magical crystal ball you can look into that will guarantee you one way or another. As a club, you take a punt and back yourself in. I'm sure Zac isn't deliberately getting injured.

Quote from: kruddler – on June 12, 2025, 02:28:13 pm

There will always be some player that breaks down more than an other, its statistically certain.
On the same scale, the opposite is true.
For every Jimmy Stynes, there is a Luke Livingston.

Can a club predict who does what and when. No.
Do they have some kind of idea? Potentially.

Look at Charlie, missed years of footy, then barely missed since.
Similar with Doc.

Cripps broke his leg early, has barely missed since.

There is no magical crystal ball you can look into that will guarantee you one way or another. As a club, you take a punt and back yourself in. I'm sure Zac isn't deliberately getting injured.

I know.  I understand why people are frustrated about it though.  Nick Stevens was the same.  Juddy wasnt. 

You win some you lose some, but the impact of that happening is the point.  It causes angst, robs you of a solid performer who can impact games, and means they are on there to impact games less, or arent able to when you need them.

Sounds like a certain ruckman that is garnering more attention, except we have already paid the price here.

Im not even saying he should go, but when we talk list management and moving players on, these candidates sit in possibly tradeable for the right price, and more of a priority to move on ALA marchbank.

Never said soft, and dont wish to portray that.  You take the AFL field and you arent soft.  You either gut run, or crack in, but no one is soft.  Its the let down factor Im talking about.

Thats the danger of the marquee player.  They become a point of issue when you arent going well.  Hence why everyone is having heart murmurs over Charlies form this season.

Quote from: Thryleon – on June 12, 2025, 02:52:25 pm

I know.  I understand why people are frustrated about it though.  Nick Stevens was the same.  Juddy wasnt. 

You win some you lose some, but the impact of that happening is the point.  It causes angst, robs you of a solid performer who can impact games, and means they are on there to impact games less, or arent able to when you need them.

Sounds like a certain ruckman that is garnering more attention, except we have already paid the price here.

Im not even saying he should go, but when we talk list management and moving players on, these candidates sit in possibly tradeable for the right price, and more of a priority to move on ALA marchbank.

Nick Stevens broke his neck and still played a few games before he found out. So its not like he was soft - like people would often suggest.
Juddy started with OP and dodgy shoulders and ended up with a knee, so he was far from bullet proof either.

We cut so many 'injury prone players' last year...possibly too many because it hurt our depth.
I think we've been pretty lucky with some of the kids who have stepped up this year and done ok.
Hands up anyone who thought Matt Carroll would get a game. He's had 7 i think.
Will white? Up to game 9!
HOK, HOF, Lucas
Lord taken the next step as well.

I'm not sure what Williams is on, but its not going to be as much as people expect.
Even if it is (which it isn't) if you stack his numbers up against any other small forward on our list (and we have 27 of them) he outperforms them all in terms of output. Even using simply goals, he is 1/2 goal clear on most if not all others.

Quote from: kruddler – on June 12, 2025, 03:07:26 pm

Nick Stevens broke his neck and still played a few games before he found out. So its not like he was soft - like people would often suggest.
Juddy started with OP and dodgy shoulders and ended up with a knee, so he was far from bullet proof either.

We cut so many 'injury prone players' last year...possibly too many because it hurt our depth.
I think we've been pretty lucky with some of the kids who have stepped up this year and done ok.
Hands up anyone who thought Matt Carroll would get a game. He's had 7 i think.
Will white? Up to game 9!
HOK, HOF, Lucas
Lord taken the next step as well.

I'm not sure what Williams is on, but its not going to be as much as people expect.
Even if it is (which it isn't) if you stack his numbers up against any other small forward on our list (and we have 27 of them) he outperforms them all in terms of output. Even using simply goals, he is 1/2 goal clear on most if not all others.

Williams might be ahead of our other small forwards but he is a mile of the better ones in the top teams ...if you tried to trade him we would be lucky if we got a bite and even then the return would be minimal imho.
I agree no player is soft who takes the field given every game now is a physical no holds barred contest fest but he is inconsistent in his attack on the ball and that makes him a liability imho and if I could get an upgrade on him I would.

Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on June 12, 2025, 04:48:10 pm

Williams might be ahead of our other small forwards but he is a mile of the better ones in the top teams ...if you tried to trade him we would be lucky if we got a bite and even then the return would be minimal imho.
I agree no player is soft who takes the field given every game now is a physical no holds barred contest fest but he is inconsistent in his attack on the ball and that makes him a liability imho and if I could get an upgrade on him I would.

No one will trade for him because of his history and the fact he is 31. He might not be as good as other clubs equivalents, but so what, he's still the best performed bloke we've got, so maybe forget about his age, his pay packet, his previous injury history and give the bloke some credit for what he is doing on the footy field.

This is not directed at anyone specifically, but the footballing world as a whole.
Everyone is quick to sink the boots in, nobody will give him any kudos though.

I'll bite.
Williams has value as a chaos ball half forward opportunist.  He's close to the only one on the list that can make goals out of nothing. So, in that respect he gets a game.
But he wasn't recruited to play that role and must be considered an expensive FA bust.
Do not expect him to play meaningful minutes on ball, or in defence, because it will end in tears or frustration.
Get out the tape of Williams playing in defence on the last (wet) game versus the pies, his "contesting", or more correctly lack thereof, was embarassing.  I'm surprised Voss didn't walk on to the ground and drag him off by the collar.

Quote from: Professer E – on June 12, 2025, 06:06:50 pm

I'll bite.
Williams has value as a chaos ball half forward opportunist.  He's close to the only one on the list that can make goals out of nothing. So, in that respect he gets a game.
But he wasn't recruited to play that role and must be considered an expensive FA bust.
Do not expect him to play meaningful minutes on ball, or in defence, because it will end in tears or frustration.
Get out the tape of Williams playing in defence on the last (wet) game versus the pies, his "contesting", or more correctly lack thereof, was embarassing.  I'm surprised Voss didn't walk on to the ground and drag him off by the collar.

Silvagni wasn't recruited to play key back. - Is he a bust?
McGovern was a forward, now a back, now a forward again?? - Is he a bust??

Thats a weird way to evaluate success/failures.