AFL Rd 12 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast

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Re: AFL Rd 12 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast

Reply #15 – Today at 07:36:00 am

Positives
4 points
Negative
Underwhelming performance against 18th

Re: AFL Rd 12 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast

Reply #16 – Today at 08:43:10 am

If the opposition doesn't turn up -- Cheats/Weagles 1st qtrs (and others throughout the years) -- we look a million bucks. But the moment other sides get to work, it seems we just don't know what to do other than attempt to close the game down - blokes go into their shells, become panicky, confused, discombobulated, skills evaporate, disconnected and just plain ordinary. Inconsistency reigns. A bunch of individuals once any heat comes into the game. Plus, we're really boring to watch.

Re: AFL Rd 12 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast

Reply #17 – Today at 08:55:25 am

Surely it's not a fitness issue.
If it was happening 15 minutes into the last quarter you could guess at that being a part of the reason.
But 15 minutes into the second quarter....

Curnow in a post match suggested they slowed things down a bit once they copped a few injuries.
Cant see the reasoning behind that given the injuries were to two tall forward/ruck

Nope it's a 'mental' issue.
And strangely it's one that affects supporters as well as players.
As well as we were playing, who amongst us watching on didn't feel that we would struggle to maintain the effort.
It was almost expected it would turn around.
I'm guessing it gets into the players heads too.
A silly mistake (and we had a few last night) can cause a momentum shift and when we lose it we almost always find it hard to get it back.
It becomes a case of 'holding on'.

We desperately need a couple of games of four quarter effort to break the trend, but looking at the draw, options for that are running out pretty quickly.

Re: AFL Rd 12 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast

Reply #18 – Today at 10:31:32 am

Quote from: Baggers – on Today at 08:43:10 am

If the opposition doesn't turn up -- Cheats/Weagles 1st qtrs (and others throughout the years) -- we look a million bucks. But the moment other sides get to work, it seems we just don't know what to do other than attempt to close the game down - blokes go into their shells, become panicky, confused, discombobulated, skills evaporate, disconnected and just plain ordinary. Inconsistency reigns. A bunch of individuals once any heat comes into the game. Plus, we're really boring to watch.

Our players are lazy. When we play well, we move the by hand quickly (to cater for lack of leg speed) and we look good. The minute the opposition apply pressure and close off space, we get impatient and go the useless long bomb to a contest. The talls dont seem to want to provide half decent one and the ball gets turned over.
When we play well under pressure from the opposition, we dont panic, we switch the footy from side to side and wait until an opportunity is created to then move the footy fwd. I saw players standing around doing SFA to get into space forcing the bomb or hack kick. craps me to tears and really, two weeks in a row we should have kicked cricket scores against those two defences. Losing two qtrs this week and 3 last week against those teams in an abomination.

Re: AFL Rd 12 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast

Reply #19 – Today at 10:40:15 am

Lazy... we deliberately changed mode to a different style.

Not sure where the idea comes from that this is an effort or desire based situation.

Its a tactical shift to a slower mode of playing.

Not sure where the idea comes from that it's lazy or based on a desire. They are clearly trying to play a different method that is not as contested and there is no practice like match practice. Occasionally our opposition are forcing this to happen but that wasn't what happened yesterday.

Re: AFL Rd 12 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast

Reply #20 – Today at 10:41:21 am

Acres needs a spell, he has been horrid.

Re: AFL Rd 12 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast

Reply #21 – Today at 10:44:55 am

Quote from: Thryleon – on Today at 10:40:15 am

Lazy... we deliberately changed mode to a different style.

Not sure where the idea comes from that this is an effort or desire based situation.

Its a tactical shift to a slower mode of playing.

Not sure where the idea comes from that it's lazy or based on a desire. They are clearly trying to play a different method that is not as contested and there is no practice like match practice. Occasionally our opposition are forcing this to happen but that wasn't what happened yesterday.

Good teams dont need to change the way the play so much, we had the opportunity 2 weeks in a row to go on with it and we get too sucked into worrying about the opposition and what they have changed. To my eye, and clearly I wasnt at the ground, it looked like from about mid way through the second, players stopped running and creating space for themselves. The HB chains stopped and its like we went into conservation mode.

Re: AFL Rd 12 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast

Reply #22 – Today at 10:49:59 am

We have been run over a few times this year. This was not one of those times.

Re: AFL Rd 12 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast

Reply #23 – Today at 10:57:40 am

If the issues were easy to solve, I think the club has enough seasoned campaigners, across all departments, to have sorted them by now.

Re: AFL Rd 12 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast

Reply #24 – Today at 10:58:43 am

Quote from: Gointocarlton – on Today at 10:44:55 am

Quote from: Thryleon – on Today at 10:40:15 am
Lazy... we deliberately changed mode to a different style.

Not sure where the idea comes from that this is an effort or desire based situation.

Its a tactical shift to a slower mode of playing.

Not sure where the idea comes from that it's lazy or based on a desire. They are clearly trying to play a different method that is not as contested and there is no practice like match practice. Occasionally our opposition are forcing this to happen but that wasn't what happened yesterday.
Good teams dont need to change the way the play so much, we had the opportunity 2 weeks in a row to go on with it and we get too sucked into worrying about the opposition and what they have changed. To my eye, and clearly I wasnt at the ground, it looked like from about mid way through the second, players stopped running and creating space for themselves. The HB chains stopped and its like we went into conservation mode.

good teams change play and execute effectively another way.

We are trying to get better at that, but you cant improve it without doing it.

The tell was Voss getting annoyed in the coaches box. We have execution issues.

I dont want you to get upset I'm explaining your frustration, and why it's happening. I understand it its easy to say dont play this way. Thing is if we can work our way through this bit and improve it we might reap rewards from it in games where our other mode isnt effective.

Re: AFL Rd 12 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast

Reply #25 – Today at 11:00:20 am

We are in a situation where if we did happen to make finals it may very well depend on percentage.

If it was a deliberate tactic...(which for the life of me I can't understand, given the injuries were not to players where speed was a huge factor)
Why slow play down and dry up the scoring in one of the best opportunities we have left to improve our percentage?

Re: AFL Rd 12 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast

Reply #26 – Today at 11:00:47 am

Quote from: Gointocarlton – on Today at 10:44:55 am

Quote from: Thryleon – on Today at 10:40:15 am
Lazy... we deliberately changed mode to a different style.

Not sure where the idea comes from that this is an effort or desire based situation.

Its a tactical shift to a slower mode of playing.

Not sure where the idea comes from that it's lazy or based on a desire. They are clearly trying to play a different method that is not as contested and there is no practice like match practice. Occasionally our opposition are forcing this to happen but that wasn't what happened yesterday.
Good teams dont need to change the way the play so much, we had the opportunity 2 weeks in a row to go on with it and we get too sucked into worrying about the opposition and what they have changed. To my eye, and clearly I wasnt at the ground, it looked like from about mid way through the second, players stopped running and creating space for themselves. The HB chains stopped and its like we went into conservation mode.

Fully Agree, the attacking mode got switched off and we went back to our Soviet style conservative stoppage, mark and kick game.
No run and carry breaking the lines, just go back and take your kick and slow the game down, we got lucky that West Coast are so bad they couldnt take advantage and fumbled their way to a loss with some of the worst skills I have seen.
Brock is the worst footballer in the comp, give him the ball and its a guaranteed turn over as he has no idea how to defend or play safe down back. Same with Dewar who got a lot of the ball but butchered every kick, we need to thank those two for helping us win the game..

Re: AFL Rd 12 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast

Reply #27 – Today at 12:03:58 pm

The glass half full version :
- we won by nearly 6 goals, similar to Geelong who beat WC by 7 goals
- traveling, away from Melbourne
- no Walsh, no McKay, Curnow out early, Cripps and Weitering down on form for various reasons
- a few players with a handful of games
- a few in game injuries

The glass half empty version :
- we played 2 quarters of good footy, against a team with one win, sitting last on the ladder.

Let the reader choose.

Re: AFL Rd 12 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast

Reply #28 – Today at 12:05:56 pm

Doesn't sound like I missed much; I was in hospital with a cracked rib and didn't follow a second of the game.
I'll look at the replay today as I recover, but it sounds like the only thing I missed was Charlie's injury.

Re: AFL Rd 12 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast

Reply #29 – Today at 12:15:38 pm

I understand the need to experiment.
I'm all for going full bore on experimentation once our season is out of reach.
Play kids, or fringe players who may be on one last chance.
Play around with structure
Try players in different positions.
I'm not sure in a senior match where you are still a finals chance though is the best time or place.

If it was in fact a deliberate move...
We didn't gain much from changing things up, if anything...
-For a start the side we put on the field (and ended up on the field) is probably well short of our best 22 so any learning opportunity only applies to those playing>
-we lost an opportunity to improve on our percentage.
-we may have re-inforced doubts amongst our players about our ability to play out a game.
(that's kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy...if they doubt... when one or two things go wrong it can get into their heads. Maybe that's what is happening already
-it didn't work, and a team labelled as pathetic by their coach at quarter time is suddenly competitive.
-it may work against a West Coast. Try it against a Collingwood and they'll run all over us. Different opposition-different tactics.