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Iran, I ran so far away - flock of seagulls

I thought id start this thread because this topic isnt being discussed anywhere else and it figured a title like this provides the requisite satire to not take life too seriously in what is a very serious situation.

I found the strikes against Iran eyebrow raising. 

The whole nuclear rationale for attacking another nation to me to be an excuse.

It reminds me of Saddam Hussein, Iraq and the weapons of mass destruction that to my best knowledge, never turned up. 

Israel are feeling the backlash of this.  Deservedly so.  No sympathy for an aggressor in war.  They did what their intel told them to I suppose.

The more recent comparison we have is Ukraine and Russia.  These conflicts have the capability of plunging us into world war 3. We are rather fortunate here in Australia.  We dont have to worry too much about this stuff as the only nation likely to invade us has largely achieved it through immigration and real estate anyway so they won't be coming for us any time soon. 

Give us your thoughts.  Im not sure Israel has garnered much sympathy out of this.  Is it a continuation of the stoush with palestine where Iran was seen to be an enabler?
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Iran, I ran so far away - flock of seagulls

Reply #1 –
Didn't Iran launch hundreds of drones at them last year?
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: Iran, I ran so far away - flock of seagulls

Reply #2 –
A lot of these situations are complicated for us by the fact that we, at the 'common people' level, don't have access to intelligence and information available to the 'higher ups'
Actions that are taken might seem wrong, barbaric even.

So any judgement we make is made at a very general level, often based on our own knowledge, values and background.
What we sometimes don't appreciate is the 'walk a mile in my shoes' aspect of some of these conflicts.
Put ourselves in the place of -
-the Palestinian in Gaza or the West Bank who live in fear of what the Israelis might do next in terms of relocation for settlement...or worse,
-the Israeli with some neighbours who don't believe in their right to exist and are constantly calling for that nation's destruction.
-the Russian speaking Ukranian, with for all intents and purposes a Russian identity, and a wish to belong to that country who lives on or near the border. The Russian invasion would have seemed more like a liberation.

In any of those situations...and there are many more, our perspectives on right or wrong would change and actions we regard as wrong or barbaric would seem entirely justified if we actually lived those scenarios.
They're the kind of situations we can't appreciate.
We are in some repects protected by our isolation.
Our foes aren't right next door, although that might not always be the case with a nation of 300 million just to our North -West
Our alliances also put us in the firing line to some extent.

The Israelis are engaged at the moment on a bit of a mission to degrade all opposition...Palestine, Lebanon, Syria and now Iran.
They don't do things by halves.
They learned that from the 'very best' last century.
Would these attacks have happened now if it wasn't for the events of October 7th.
How many lives lost can be traced back to that event.
Gaza may not have been a paradise for the people living there, with the constant threat of their Israeli neighbours...but it almost certainly wouldn't be the hell it's become.
You have to wonder what the thinking was...did they expect neighbouring Arab countries to rise up in support.
They certainly would have had no doubts about the 'shock and awe' Israeli reponse.

The Israeli's are no doubt hoping that once they're finished any threats will have largely been eliminated.
Unfortunately, while the more apparent, obvious threats may be downgraded they will have spawned extra generations of hatred, who often resort to a more subtle but equally deadly and destructive forms of revenge.





Re: Iran, I ran so far away - flock of seagulls

Reply #3 –
Iran and Israel have been fighting proxy wars for years; Iran backs almost anyone who hates Israel. Hammas, Hezbollah, the Houtis is Yemen, just to name a few. Being a theocracy, Iran does things no matter what their people may want.

That said, I wish Israel hadn't struck first. :(
Live Long and Prosper!

Re: Iran, I ran so far away - flock of seagulls

Reply #4 –
This is about wealth, in the form of oil, gas, real-estate, etc., etc..

There is nobody from either side with the right to the high moral ground in this dispute, they are all gutter crawling.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Iran, I ran so far away - flock of seagulls

Reply #5 –
Quote from: LP – on
This is about wealth, in the form of oil, gas, real-estate, etc., etc..

There is nobody from either side with the right to the high moral ground in this dispute, they are all gutter crawling.

Yes, and it's the ordinary citizens on both sides who are bearing the brunt of the politicians' war.
"Negative waves are not helpful. Try saying something righteous and hopeful instead." Oddball

Re: Iran, I ran so far away - flock of seagulls

Reply #6 –
The actions of Israeli settlers have been particularly repulsive, certain aspects clearly underscore that this conflict is the usual "we want something that the other mob have, so we're gonna take it".  Usual negative human  actions- greed, coveting fhat of others etc
DrE is no more... you ok with that harmonica man?

Re: Iran, I ran so far away - flock of seagulls

Reply #7 –
Quote from: crashlander – on
Iran and Israel have been fighting proxy wars for years; Iran backs almost anyone who hates Israel. Hammas, Hezbollah, the Houtis is Yemen, just to name a few. Being a theocracy, Iran does things no matter what their people may want.

That said, I wish Israel hadn't struck first. :(
Israel had no choice imo, when your enemies are building their nuclear capability to intimidate you it's better to engage in warfare that's conventional than wait for a nutcase on the other side to test out their fresh nuclear toys.


Re: Iran, I ran so far away - flock of seagulls

Reply #9 –
Tulsi Gabbard, US Director of National Intelligence, told Congress in March that the intelligence community “continues to assess that Iran is not building a nuclear weapon and Supreme Leader Khamenei has not authorized the nuclear weapons program he suspended in 2003.”

After the Iraq WMD fiasco, US intelligence pronouncements have to be treated cautiously but I suspect that Gabbard has a better handle on things than Taco.  The latter seems to be more concerned about keeping in lockstep with Bibi than following authoritative advice and/or trying to end the conflict.

And Thry, I'd be running too if I came up with such a cheesy thread title ... but you did bring a smile to my dial :D

Keep up the good work!



"Negative waves are not helpful. Try saying something righteous and hopeful instead." Oddball
 

Re: Iran, I ran so far away - flock of seagulls

Reply #10 –
Now this is something that ive often had issues with. Generally speaking, here is a graph.

https://www.statista.com/chart/8301/the-countries-holding-the-worlds-nuclear-arsenal/

Iran do not feature on the list of nations possessing nuclear weapons.

Israel on the other hand, do.

Its fundamentally hypocritical to stop another nation from obtaining them if you have some.

Or does it matter which side is the goodies, and which are the baddies?
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Iran, I ran so far away - flock of seagulls

Reply #11 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on
Now this is something that ive often had issues with. Generally speaking, here is a graph.

https://www.statista.com/chart/8301/the-countries-holding-the-worlds-nuclear-arsenal/

Iran do not feature on the list of nations possessing nuclear weapons.

Israel on the other hand, do.

Its fundamentally hypocritical to stop another nation from obtaining them if you have some.

Or does it matter which side is the goodies, and which are the baddies?

Which country has the best propaganda machine is the goodies.

Re: Iran, I ran so far away - flock of seagulls

Reply #12 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on
Now this is something that ive often had issues with. Generally speaking, here is a graph.

https://www.statista.com/chart/8301/the-countries-holding-the-worlds-nuclear-arsenal/

Iran do not feature on the list of nations possessing nuclear weapons.

Israel on the other hand, do.

Its fundamentally hypocritical to stop another nation from obtaining them if you have some.

Or does it matter which side is the goodies, and which are the baddies?

The fewer countries that have the bloody things the better.

If a countries leaders constantly sprout the elimination of your country and embark on a program that could result in them obtaining nuclear weapons, then the rules of 'fairness' and hypocrisy go out the window.
You don't play fair.
You use the advantage while you still possess it.
You're going to do everything in your power and capability to make sure such a program doesn't progress.

Re: Iran, I ran so far away - flock of seagulls

Reply #13 –
While those counts in the hundreds and thousands of warheads are alarming, the vast bulk of the listed weapons fall into the tactical nuclear weapons category. The real threat is the yield relative to the size of the device, they yield a similar level of devastation to massive conventional weapons but at a fraction of the size of a conventional weapon.

This means they can be deployed on missiles, cruise missiles, aircraft, even shells (artillery), etc., etc.. Also, the yield of a tactical weapon is typically variable, in that they can be "adjusted" over a wide yield range subject to the intended target. For example the bunker busters can yield from as low as 1 kiloton up to several tens of kilotons and be delivered deep into subterranean spaces.

It's not clear the types of weapons various states hold, the count itself is not so useful, it's unlikely the initial weapons of a new player would be tactical. They are more likely to be strategic requiring ICBMs or heavy bombers. I know that doesn't sound very comforting but it caps the useful range of most weapons in modern warfare, it's not at all clear how they would be reliably delivered.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Iran, I ran so far away - flock of seagulls

Reply #14 –
All I'll say is that it's at times like this that I am glad we are 12,000km away. People in the region need to make snap decisions based on intel, these regions basically live on high alert. Fark that.
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