Carlton Supporters Club

After 9 or 10 separate attempts, the “wrong bloke” ship has well and truly sailed. Are people seriously believing that if McRae was our coach we would be sitting 13-2 on the ladder?

After 9 or 10 separate attempts, the “wrong bloke” ship has well and truly sailed. Are people seriously believing that if McRae was our coach we would be sitting 13-2 on the ladder?

Quote from: PaulP – on June 28, 2025, 10:41:32 pm

After 9 or 10 separate attempts, the “wrong bloke” ship has well and truly sailed. Are people seriously believing that if McRae was our coach we would be sitting 13-2 on the ladder?

its really hard to mount any argument to the contrary but IMHO, with fly at our club and vossy st their club, my suspicion is that things would be largely the same.

That is the unknowable, Pauly, and such an assumption would be illogical to the extreme. But what we do know is that under Fly in this hypothetical, we would have had a different game plan and a different kind of leadership, and from there... who knows.

Quote from: Baggers – on June 29, 2025, 08:43:38 am

That is the unknowable, Pauly, and such an assumption would be illogical to the extreme. But what we do know is that under Fly in this hypothetical, we would have had a different game plan and a different kind of leadership, and from there... who knows.

I disagree Baggers. In a complex system like a football club, one person cannot make that much of a difference. We’ve seen this often enough. There is an interplay between the individual and the group/ organisation.  They affect and transform each other to varying degrees. I’m not suggesting in any way that a coach makes no difference, but the balance of power is very much with the organisation, and the organisation shapes the individual a lot more than the other way round.

I should also add that I don’t believe our culture is c r a p. I think we’ve built some good foundations in the last few years, but there are clearly some pieces of the puzzle that are missing.

McRae got the Collingwood job because Wright had a fixed idea on how they wanted to play and that was the Richmond gameplan. They wanted a Hardwick pupil who could execute and had tactical nous because thats what that gamestyle requires.
Kingsley was the second choice because again he was a Hardwick pupil, McRae wasnt a popular choice with many Pies fans being an unknown rookie coach and there was a bit of pushback on his appointment but clearly Wright knew what he wanted.

According to Mitch Cleary from CH7 , Voss was appointed on the basis he was a standard setter, an authoritarian figure with a high level of respect in the football community because of his playing history and a coach who players would listen to unlike the previous incumbent Teague who lost the senior players. Luke Sayers said publicly that we had the list and Voss was the man to unlock its potential, so he wasnt there to build the list but to win premierships.
Sayers said“Michael demonstrated a strong understanding of the key fundamental requirements for Carlton right now: inspirational and accountable leadership, driver of a united and ambitious culture, builder of trusting and collaborative relationships and a deep and genuine desire to deliver strong on-field performance". Those comments imo related to the weak areas of Teagues short reign as coach where he was strong with innovation and tactically but couldnt manage the playing group and bond with certain players and had pushback in the gamestyle he was trying to implement.
Cleary also said that Voss wasnt expected to deliver any technical/tactical nous not being his forte and that the club would employ assistants to provide in that area ie Hansen, Hamill, Clarke etc.
Voss said his focus would be fixing our contest/stoppage and defensive areas which to be fair he has achieved but probably at the expense of our offensive game.
4 days ago Voss has defended Carlton's contested-based style, saying it still stacked up against the competition's pacesetters. "It's a pretty impressive brand to watch," he said. "It's hard to talk down being the No.1 contested team in competition ...
I think thats being a bit delusional, kicking the ball backwards, sideways and bombing it in long is not pretty to watch and not what the better teams are playing imho.

My view is I dont see any comparison between Voss and McRae valid as they operate at opposite ends of the spectrum in terms of gamestyle and Mcrae in particular had an opportunity to have input into his list where he has used the topup method unlike Voss who got given a rebuilt list with high expectations attached, so different coaches with different lists.
Im highly critical of Voss and his lack of tactical ability but after hearing what Cleary said I think a lot of the blame has to fall on Hansen and the other Assistants.
I see Voss as a Chris Fagan style coach who is more of a Man Manager but needs the right crew around him unlike say McRae who is prepared to shuffle the magnets at any point in the game and take the blame if it all goes astray rather than blame the players if they dont play their role etc.
McRae also has the advantage of a great leadership group and is spoilt for choice with so many mature players unlike Voss who when we all tried to pick a new captain in the "next captain thread" struggled to find many names who qualified as leaders.

If we retain Voss then imo all the Football manager, Coaching Assistants and Recruiters have to go and start afresh especially with Assistants who can help modify the gamestyle and move the magnets better on matchday.
If he is sacked I dont have a problem either and dont subscribe to the theory all our problems are based on our history of sacking coaches....if you look at Brittan, Ratten, Bolton and Teague what have they done senior coaching wise since they were sacked....answer..Nothing. What have we missed out on....Nada.
Fagan has had 8 years at Brisbane making finals in the last six so its a bit of the Geelong operating theory where if you play the odds you have to win a GF eventually if you keep making the eight.
Its a Difficult position for Wright and the board to evaluate Voss given he has achieved some objectives but failed to progress from the last couple of years unlike say Fagan who kept Brisbane in the premiership frame on a continuous basis and as we all know these decisions usually get made sooner than later depending on the availability of coaching options so I dont see the remaining games having much influence.

Ratts went ok getting the Saints into the finals but coaching them is no different to coaching us, especially culture-wise and they eventually got him. Saints gave him a new contract then took that away a month later to get Lyon, who has done bugger all. They are as bad a club to coach as us. Ratts got to coach the two worst possible side culture-wise. Could have done alot worse performance-wise.

The Dominator certainly didn't mince words about our effort. Fair to say he was disgusted and said it was so unfair our supporters.