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Topic: AFL Rd 18 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane (Read 2528 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: AFL Rd 18 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #76 –
Fantasia was very good for half a game....and then he got injured.
And thats the good and the bad.

Re: AFL Rd 18 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #77 –
Quote from: madbluboy – on
Quote from: Shakin77 – on


In term of effort, we won the contested ball and clearances.    Two very good indicators of effort.

Our ball use and decision making are a different story.

They had a dip last night.

Yeah I don't get the questioning of our effort.


I'm not questioning the effort even though i could name more then a few that appear to be going thru the motions.

In 2023 we were playing in a PF. 2024 we all bought the injury card as to why we failed again and now in 2025 our season was dead with still 9 rounds to go so yep this list is well passed being praised for 'effort' from me.

Re: AFL Rd 18 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #78 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
Quote from: Thryleon – on
^^

Dont forget to do metres gained.

Fantasia 304.

Motlop 189.

Oh and time on ground percetange 81% motlop, and Fantasia 51%.

Fantasia's issues are reliability.

Not capability.  Reliability limits his capability.

Both of them are luxuries a side like ours cannot afford.

TDK played most of his game forward, and Pittonet mostly in the ruck.  Thats another stinky comparison.

I was picking generic data. Not favouring one or the other.

I included complete ruck stats to show relative numbers there.
That is...
Pitto wins 1/2 the hitouts of contests he is in. TDK 1/3
Pitto gets 1/5 hitouts to advantage from ruck contests he attends. TDK is 1 in 7.

TDK played most of his game forward...cool....Pitto outscored him, took more contested marks, had as many score involvements.
But TDK looks pretty running around the ground and can jump higher. None of this translates to actual output on game day.

You didn't want to include TOG for those 2 though? Does it hurt your defence?
Pitto TOG - 74%
TDK TOG - 85%

As for Fantasia vs Motlop......i chose that comparison before even looking at the stats and was surprised how much better Motlop did.
Im not the one making an argument here.  TDK was playing as a forward (poorly at that) and my standout moment of the game for him, was us conceding whilst he was checking on a teamate that fell over, and the opposition waltzed away with the footy.  Look after your mate later thanks.

I have no complaints with Pittonet, and have defended him from the time he signed a 4 year deal.

Re: Motlop, he gets a free pass because we are bereft of young talent, but he is not anywhere near elite for a small forward.  I cant remember the last time he scored a goal and did well, and we are about to move him around the ground to try and find other ways to impact the game.

"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: AFL Rd 18 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #79 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Quote from: madbluboy – on
Disagree Elwood, Brisbane were ferocious.

I'll agree when they had to be MBB, but i thought they fiddled and over used the ball a lot.

Agreed. They also missed quite a few goal scoring opportunities. Not as bad as us but nevertheless still significant.
Reality always wins in the end.
 

Re: AFL Rd 18 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #80 –
Quote from: cookie2 – on
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on

I'll agree when they had to be MBB, but i thought they fiddled and over used the ball a lot.

Agreed. They also missed quite a few goal scoring opportunities. Not as bad as us but nevertheless still significant.

I feel like we missed some absolute sitters where as they kicked those. Ours were particularly deflating, especially early.
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership

Re: AFL Rd 18 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #81 –
Quote from: madbluboy – on
Quote from: kruddler – on


lol.....not surprised you are living in a 'fantasy' world.


Are you going LP on me. The stats only matter if you put them up.

Stats are stats.

Supercoach points can change based on free kicks given for / against.
You can have a free kick against you for a 'professional free' or from a poor umpiring decision.
A long kick to a 50-50 contest is an effective kick even if we lose it. If it goes 40m to a contest its ineffective.

Motlop kicked the ball through for an opposition behind. By those stats, its ineffective. By reality, he saved us a goal.

There is too much grey area on supercoach points.

Re: AFL Rd 18 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #82 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on
Quote from: kruddler – on


I was picking generic data. Not favouring one or the other.

I included complete ruck stats to show relative numbers there.
That is...
Pitto wins 1/2 the hitouts of contests he is in. TDK 1/3
Pitto gets 1/5 hitouts to advantage from ruck contests he attends. TDK is 1 in 7.

TDK played most of his game forward...cool....Pitto outscored him, took more contested marks, had as many score involvements.
But TDK looks pretty running around the ground and can jump higher. None of this translates to actual output on game day.

You didn't want to include TOG for those 2 though? Does it hurt your defence?
Pitto TOG - 74%
TDK TOG - 85%

As for Fantasia vs Motlop......i chose that comparison before even looking at the stats and was surprised how much better Motlop did.
Im not the one making an argument here.  TDK was playing as a forward (poorly at that) and my standout moment of the game for him, was us conceding whilst he was checking on a teamate that fell over, and the opposition waltzed away with the footy.  Look after your mate later thanks.

I have no complaints with Pittonet, and have defended him from the time he signed a 4 year deal.

Re: Motlop, he gets a free pass because we are bereft of young talent, but he is not anywhere near elite for a small forward.  I cant remember the last time he scored a goal and did well, and we are about to move him around the ground to try and find other ways to impact the game.

My point was this.

TDK gets credit. Pittonet gets not much (this game being perhaps the only exception in recent time) but stats wise.....it does NOT give you any insight into what the market offers are. That is, based on output, both are worth the same.

Similarly Fantasia and Motlop. Both get chastised. Motlop has age on his side and is performing at least to the same level of the wiley old veteran we recruited for his experience. Who should be congratulated and who should be chastised for not giving enough.

If i put comparisons of player a vs player b....we have a different discussion than if i put the actual names there.....and that is the issue. Peoples perception change based on the names. Forget the names, look at whats being offered in terms of output.

I'm not selective.
Curnow, Weitering, TDK, Cripps.....they've all copped it from me lately.

The take home point is this....
Perform, or piss off and give a kid a go.

Re: AFL Rd 18 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #83 –
I must watch a different Motlop to most.    Yeah, he needs to finish his work and makes some poor decisions, but he does a lot right.   Adds a different dimension at stoppage.   5 clearances last night.   Only behind Hewitt and Cripps.    I can't see a world that you wouldn't play him or even trade him.

Re: AFL Rd 18 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #84 –
Maybe Motlop needs to start onball and play the majority of the game there rather than the other way around.
I'd be happy to try that for the remaining games and see if he has some Kossie Pickett traits to his game.

Re: AFL Rd 18 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #85 –
Motlop suffers from the fact that we move the football at glacier speed.  Small forwards need the ball pinging in fast, as they operate on chaos. 

While the majority of our F50 entries are basically dump kicks to Harry, Charlie or TDK, Motlop and his small forward compatriots have next to no chance, as they are up against 6 defenders and 3-4 midfielders in there.
This is now the longest premiership drought in the history of the Carlton Football Club - more evidence of climate change?

Re: AFL Rd 18 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #86 –
Quote from: Shakin77 – on
I must watch a different Motlop to most.    Yeah, he needs to finish his work and makes some poor decisions, but he does a lot right.   Adds a different dimension at stoppage.   5 clearances last night.   Only behind Hewitt and Cripps.    I can't see a world that you wouldn't play him or even trade him.

Yep. In Motlop you see glimpses. You see talent. You see hope.

Yes, you see mistakes....but he isn't alone in that.

I see similar in Moir.
You see glimpses. You see talent. You see hope.

Yes, you see mistakes....but he isn't alone in that.

Not too many players you can say that about. Plenty of others might turn out to be ok, but there is no out and out talent on display like the other 2.

Re: AFL Rd 18 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #87 –
Quote from: Shakin77 – on
I must watch a different Motlop to most.    Yeah, he needs to finish his work and makes some poor decisions, but he does a lot right.   Adds a different dimension at stoppage.   5 clearances last night.   Only behind Hewitt and Cripps.    I can't see a world that you wouldn't play him or even trade him.

Yes, his output must be seen in context of the team performance and his team mates. 17 disposals, 6 marks, 4 tackles, 5 clearances, 198 meters gained and 81% TOG. By the team standards, that's not a bad output.

Re: AFL Rd 18 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #88 –
There not good numbers for a midfielder which is where he mainy played last night.
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: AFL Rd 18 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Brisbane

Reply #89 –
In Silvagni McKay Newman Cottrell Kemp Walsh Saad E Hollands (🙏🤞) Smith

Out Young Durdin Pittonet/TDK Cerra McGovern Fogarty Carroll Fantasia Docherty

Just saying
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership