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Re: Annus horribilis

Reply #15 –
I don't think this is the worst year we've had, but it was truly a shocker. I am glad we found a few late in the season, but it is hard to get past this list. My comments in colour.

Quote from: Lods – on
A poster on one of the Facebook pages has outlined some of the major issues of the season.
In brief...

-Pick 3 Jagga Smith, does ACL Totally ruined our attempt at injecting pace and run into our midfield. The only positive was that it gave the lad a chance to develop his body for 2026.
-Newman out for the year Probably the 2nd worst thing to happen, as it robbed us of his leadership, his ability to good players done and his decision making. Hopefully, he can come back in 2026 as good as ever.
-Kemp out for the year When he was finally showing what we wanted, :(
-Lose unexpectedly to Richmond in Round 1 That was like a knife in the heart, to lead by so much and to fall over against this bunch of babies.
-President sends a ‘dick pick’ and ends up resigning Embarassing. Hopefully his replacement will end up like Ian Rice and reign over our return to glory.
-Lose a number of games after leading early.
-Miss finals and don't have first or second pick We made a bold move to get Jagga, which was cruelled before he could show what he could do. The consequences of our downfall, alas, are dire. I don't think our recruiters could guess that was going to happen, but it certainly made us pay a much higher price than we should have.
-E Hollands and Harry have mental Health issues. Elijah’s future is uncertain Again, these two could not be foreseen, and they cost us dearly. Hopefully, we can move on from these and get them going strongly in 2026.
-Harry O'Farrell has best game, Does ACL the following week
-Jack Martin kicks 6 in a game, and Matt Kennedy has a very good year Disappointing, but not as lethal as some of the other disasters. As for Martin, he has yet to prove that he is any more durable.
-TDK leaves Not good. :(
-Curnow wants to leave A disaster.
-Silvagni goes to defence and is playing great football... until he gets injured
-Then Silvagni announces he is leaving for darker pastures One of the real lowlights of 2025.
-AFL hints at changing father son rule the year we have a top prospect in Cody Walker Unacceptable! We simply cannot allow this to occur!
….and injuries continue to impact heavily on the season. You cannot win many games with half of your best lineup not on the park.
Anything else?

You think it's been bad?
I think it qualified. ;)
Live Long and Prosper!

Re: Annus horribilis

Reply #16 –
This will be the clean out we needed to have, all the toxic influences will be gone, all the those who are either not good enough or passed it will be moved on and we will bring in new blood and talent.
Bring it on I say.
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time
2025-Carlton can win the 2025 AFL Premiership

Re: Annus horribilis

Reply #17 –
Quote from: LP – on
Quote from: madbluboy – on
He was actually better than Weitering but missing that much footy I just couldn't give him the number 1 spot.
Sorry, but I think that's fanboy talk, the surname and history at work again.

Weitering was clearly our best defender, even our own forum voting indicates that, based on the full season I wouldn't have even rated SoJ ahead of Haynes. At very best he's 3rd place, but if he's ahead of others it's borderline at best.

Champion data.
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: Annus horribilis

Reply #18 –
Quote from: madbluboy – on
Quote from: LP – on

Sorry, but I think that's fanboy talk, the surname and history at work again.

Weitering was clearly our best defender, even our own forum voting indicates that, based on the full season I wouldn't have even rated SoJ ahead of Haynes. At very best he's 3rd place, but if he's ahead of others it's borderline at best.

Champion data.

Champion Data or not, my eyes were telling me jack was far superior. Weitering did get injured and was a liability at times too....but ended up back in good form.

Re: Annus horribilis

Reply #19 –
Interesting looking at our own Jim Park voting.
Silvagni was in the votes most weeks he played, but there were a couple of weeks where he was right at the top of the votes for some very good jobs on dangerous key forwards.
So there's no doubt that while it lasted the experiment was working.

One of the things that often gets people a bit confused is that SOS's 'conflict of interest' over his kids was never about favouritism for his boys.
It's not hard to be professional about that type of thing.
I can even believe SOS probably did take himself out of decisions to pick the boys up.
It can sometimes even work to the detriment of the son (or daughter) if your Dad is in charge of an important aspect like list managing as they might be harder on you to deflect criticism.

No, the issue has always been how that coach or List-man deals with the other players in the side.
How would it feel if your Dad was making career ending decisions about your close friends and team-mates
I'm guessing that over the years Jack would probably have heard "You're Dad is a fKn prick" more than once.
Even as list manager for another side where he's plucking quality players from your side it would be more than uncomfortable.
I can understand that as being a situation Jack would have found difficult to deal with over his career.
It's possibly caused conflict with other players and coaches.
He may have even overheard conversations about his dad that upset him.
Was it a big factor in his decision?
I think that is a much better reason for leaving than "I'm looking for a bit of success"

Re: Annus horribilis

Reply #20 –
@Lods...
The conflict was somewhat made up by liddle who got his feelings hurt when he tried to do his own recruitingnof his Richmond mates and sos shot him down.

Other than that I think it could be 'put in a good word for me' that Jack was burdened with.

Honestly, I think the biggest issue is something nobody has suggested yet.

Stephen may have voiced his thoughts on what the club should be doing and what he would do if he was still there.

I expect it to be something like Stephen saying to Jack....
- No way they should be letting go of a-grade talent like martin
- No way they should trade out Mr consistent Kennedy.
- One of the biggest holes they have could be fixed by getting Dan Houston and they let him walk to the pies.
- they've recruited too many small.forwards when they could've got....that guy.

Ultimately a lot.of what he said comes true, jack sees this and loses faith in Austin and co to build a list properly and jumps ship before it sinks further.

Re: Annus horribilis

Reply #21 –
Quote from: Lods – on
It can sometimes even work to the detriment of the son (or daughter) if your Dad is in charge of an important aspect like list managing as they might be harder on you to deflect criticism.
SOS could have easily moved aside, stepped down, took a leave of absence, etc., etc.. in much the same way Donald McDonald did at Norp, and there would have been no conflict.

But SOS put himself first as he always does, the same as he did on Jack's milestone game, the same as he did with our club's turmoil in the past. Even Jo was caught on camera more than once ribbing SOS about his demeanour.

It's an inglorious legacy, it doesn't change his status as a footballer, it's not a commentary about his business skills, but it happened and there is no changing it, no amount of fanboy banter will ever erase it.

Liddle didn't create the situation, SOS created it, all Liddle did was point to the Elephant in the room.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Annus horribilis

Reply #22 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
@Lods...
The conflict was somewhat made up by liddle who got his feelings hurt when he tried to do his own recruitingnof his Richmond mates and sos shot him down.

Other than that I think it could be 'put in a good word for me' that Jack was burdened with.

Honestly, I think the biggest issue is something nobody has suggested yet.

Stephen may have voiced his thoughts on what the club should be doing and what he would do if he was still there.

I expect it to be something like Stephen saying to Jack....
- No way they should be letting go of a-grade talent like martin
- No way they should trade out Mr consistent Kennedy.
- One of the biggest holes they have could be fixed by getting Dan Houston and they let him walk to the pies.
- they've recruited too many small.forwards when they could've got....that guy.

Ultimately a lot.of what he said comes true, jack sees this and loses faith in Austin and co to build a list properly and jumps ship before it sinks further.
what was that again about a lack of recruiting of alternative key position players?  Would it be that potentially we'd recruit an upgrade for Jack?
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Annus horribilis

Reply #23 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
@Lods...
The conflict was somewhat made up by liddle who got his feelings hurt when he tried to do his own recruitingnof his Richmond mates and sos shot him down.

Other than that I think it could be 'put in a good word for me' that Jack was burdened with.

Honestly, I think the biggest issue is something nobody has suggested yet.

Stephen may have voiced his thoughts on what the club should be doing and what he would do if he was still there.

I expect it to be something like Stephen saying to Jack....
- No way they should be letting go of a-grade talent like martin
- No way they should trade out Mr consistent Kennedy.
- One of the biggest holes they have could be fixed by getting Dan Houston and they let him walk to the pies.
- they've recruited too many small.forwards when they could've got....that guy.

Ultimately a lot.of what he said comes true, jack sees this and loses faith in Austin and co to build a list properly and jumps ship before it sinks further.

I think SOS's antics since leaving Carlton suggest that the 'villains of the piece' may not have been Liddle and Co alone.
I'd suspect there was fault on both sides...but people will come down on the side of a favourite.
It could very well have been a clash of the hard headed, obstinate, need to be proven right and  grudge holding.
These are not necessarily a combination conducive to co-operation...and in all that, the thing that suffers most is the club.

Jack would have a pretty good idea of the talent and worth of his team-mates.
In fact he'd probably have a much better idea than SOS who hasn't been at the club for a few years.
But it's fair to say Jack's decision may have been influenced by what has happened to 'friends'...and if that's the case he's judging on personal relationships and not what is best for the club.
 

Re: Annus horribilis

Reply #24 –
Always remember, no matter how bad things get they can always get worse.

Re: Annus horribilis

Reply #25 –
Plenty of very BIG egos floating around the club over the years breeding no doubt a testosterone fuelled culture. Pretty much guarantees a breeding ground for disputes where no prisoners are taken. Can be very damaging and difficult to get things done, especially if there is constant sniper fire.
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: Annus horribilis

Reply #27 –
Looks like this is turning into a big clean out.

I hope it doesn't mean 5 more years in the wilderness...... 
This is now the longest premiership drought in the history of the Carlton Football Club - more evidence of climate change?

Re: Annus horribilis

Reply #28 –
I was looking at JSOSs Instagram last night and saw that Jack Martin was one of his groomsmen. So personal relationships might play a part.

Who knows, only they do.

Didn’t SOS recruit two of the best mates of either JSOS or Ben too? That were given a year and then flicked because they didn’t have the talent? Finbar I think?

Anyway it all feels like there’s bitterness involved -
does SOS seem to be friendly with any of his ex teammates?

Of all the players to offer a monster contract to, why TDK…?

Re: Annus horribilis

Reply #29 –
Quote from: Lods – on
Interesting looking at our own Jim Park voting.
Silvagni was in the votes most weeks he played, but there were a couple of weeks where he was right at the top of the votes for some very good jobs on dangerous key forwards.
So there's no doubt that while it lasted the experiment was working.

One of the things that often gets people a bit confused is that SOS's 'conflict of interest' over his kids was never about favouritism for his boys.
It's not hard to be professional about that type of thing.
I can even believe SOS probably did take himself out of decisions to pick the boys up.
It can sometimes even work to the detriment of the son (or daughter) if your Dad is in charge of an important aspect like list managing as they might be harder on you to deflect criticism.

No, the issue has always been how that coach or List-man deals with the other players in the side.
How would it feel if your Dad was making career ending decisions about your close friends and team-mates
I'm guessing that over the years Jack would probably have heard "You're Dad is a fKn prick" more than once.
Even as list manager for another side where he's plucking quality players from your side it would be more than uncomfortable.
I can understand that as being a situation Jack would have found difficult to deal with over his career.
It's possibly caused conflict with other players and coaches.
He may have even overheard conversations about his dad that upset him.
Was it a big factor in his decision?
I think that is a much better reason for leaving than "I'm looking for a bit of success"



If Jack ends up at St Kilda then I think you could put that argument to rest.