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Topic: OPINION : Our Next Premiership - Without Judd & Co ?? (Read 63863 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: OPINION : Our Next Premiership - Without Judd & Co ??

Reply #90 –
Quote from: keogh – on
Will be visiting this site more after TC once again got touchy over my questioning of the club's decision making.

Many years ago, after we so convincingly won the 1995 GF, our supporter base blindly followed John Elliott and never ever questioned what he did or said.

History now shows that we had to unceremoniously throw him out of the club and endure the most savage fines & draft penalties ever handed down which virtually crippled us for near on a decade.

So, anyone who wants to question the club's actions is more than welcome around here in my opinion !! Someone has to keep them honest.
"The Other Teams Can Rot In Hell"

Re: OPINION : Our Next Premiership - Without Judd & Co ??

Reply #91 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Good CHF's win premierships........you put JK at CHF in our team and we are top 4.....but something had to give to get Judd and steady what was a sinking ship.

A good spine win's premierships with CHF, acknowledged as the hardest position on the ground to play, being the pivotal slot to success.

Have a look at all of our premierships, have we ever won one without a good spine & CHF ??
"The Other Teams Can Rot In Hell"

Re: OPINION : Our Next Premiership - Without Judd & Co ??

Reply #92 –
In my memory, our KP backs and forwards have included: Lofts, Walls, Kekovich, V. Waite, (Swan) McKay, Southby, Doull (when KPPs didn't have to be 6' 4" or better!), Maclure, Fitzpatrick (yes, fronted up at CHF on many occasions), Perovic, Bortolotto/Ditchburn (did their jobs for a short period), Silvagni, Dean, Aitkin (unless a sack of cowardly slime broke his jaw - never the same after that), Kernahan, Dorotich, Spalding...

This year it is Jamison, Watson, Henderson and Waite. Good on paper... but, will Watto stand up, ditto Waite?

Will Casboult take the next step? Ditto Rowe.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: OPINION : Our Next Premiership - Without Judd & Co ??

Reply #93 –
Quote from: Baggers – on
In my memory, our KP backs and forwards have included: Lofts, Walls, Kekovich, V. Waite, (Swan) McKay, Southby, Doull (when KPPs didn't have to be 6' 4" or better!), Maclure, Fitzpatrick (yes, fronted up at CHF on many occasions), Perovic, Bortolotto/Ditchburn (did their jobs for a short period), Silvagni, Dean, Aitkin (unless a sack of cowardly slime broke his jaw - never the same after that), Kernahan, Dorotich, Spalding...

This year it is Jamison, Watson, Henderson and Waite. Good on paper... but, will Watto stand up, ditto Waite?

Will Casboult take the next step? Ditto Rowe.

How the likes of Casboult, Watson and Rowe fare this season will go a long way to deciding whether or not we have a decent year or not and whether we can start to resemble a footy side again. 
 
If we're fair dinkum as a club too then planning for life after Jarrad Waite should be long thought out. Tipping he will give it away after this season, or he'll be elsewhere.

Re: OPINION : Our Next Premiership - Without Judd & Co ??

Reply #94 –
it's not all about CHF and full forwards Sydney won the 2012 grand final with Reid and Lrt as there key position forwards with Goodes on one leg.Its more about a contribution across the board.Who would rate those 2 as elite players ,they are both just serviceable contributors.There is no reason the likes of .Cas and Waite cannot contribute in the same way allowing the smalls to carry out the majority of the goal kicking.In my opinion Menzal could be our Gunstun 3rd tall with the likes of Yaz and Garlett and our on ballers contributing a larger amount of the scoring. When was the last time a key forward kicked a bag of goals in a grand final? I will say if Reid became available I would love to see him at our club I think he is only going to get better but the 5 year deal he got will make it hard to get him unless he wants out .Ite time we put our trust in what we have to see if they are capable if not at the end of the year bye bye.The like of cas bell menzal should all be given 6 to 10 games to show there stuff without having to worry about getting dropped every second week to build there confidence.Its time to give the kids ago nearly everyone on here does not see us winning the flag the way we are going so it's time to put up or shove of for the younger players.I don't believe the likes of ellard bootsma(at this stage)Lucas Rowe 206 cachia army and the likes will ever be premiership players at our club.So it is time to move on .
Like it or not at least it's my opinion.

Re: OPINION : Our Next Premiership - Without Judd & Co ??

Reply #95 –
@Slugger
Tend to agree with you Slugger but I think a critical mass of good players is reached in a team when it is then able to carry a couple of lesser mortals, who can look better than they really are. An example for me would be say Josh Hunt who IMO is a very average player but looked adequate most of the time for the Cats, but also had some glaring lapses on occasions.

I think we are still probably still 2-3 quality players short of that critical point. With the advancing years of Scotto, Juddy and Waite we need to address this issue very soon, as we could fall back alarmingly pdq.
Reality always wins in the end.
 

Re: OPINION : Our Next Premiership - Without Judd & Co ??

Reply #96 –
Quote from: cookie2 – on
@Slugger
Tend to agree with you Slugger but I think a critical mass of good players is reached in a team when it is then able to carry a couple of lesser mortals, who can look better than they really are. An example for me would be say Josh Hunt who IMO is a very average player but looked adequate most of the time for the Cats, but also had some glaring lapses on occasions.

I think we are still probably still 2-3 quality players short of that critical point. With the advancing years of Scotto, Juddy and Waite we need to address this issue very soon, as we could fall back alarmingly pdq.

Love your work, Furry Biscuit.

It really is achieving that balance across the board where there is that (as you write) critical balance of above average and elite players (talls and meds and smalls).

Matt Clape would be another good example of an average dude who was in the right place at the right time ('95). McKenzie in '87 would be another.
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: OPINION : Our Next Premiership - Without Judd & Co ??

Reply #97 –
Quote from: Baggers – on
Quote from: cookie2 – on
@Slugger
Tend to agree with you Slugger but I think a critical mass of good players is reached in a team when it is then able to carry a couple of lesser mortals, who can look better than they really are. An example for me would be say Josh Hunt who IMO is a very average player but looked adequate most of the time for the Cats, but also had some glaring lapses on occasions.

I think we are still probably still 2-3 quality players short of that critical point. With the advancing years of Scotto, Juddy and Waite we need to address this issue very soon, as we could fall back alarmingly pdq.

Love your work, Furry Biscuit.

It really is achieving that balance across the board where there is that (as you write) critical balance of above average and elite players (talls and meds and smalls).

Matt Clape would be another good example of an average dude who was in the right place at the right time ('95). McKenzie in '87 would be another.

Jesus, Matty Clape'. What has happened to him...haven't heard of him for a long time. No jobs in footy or anything.

Re: OPINION : Our Next Premiership - Without Judd & Co ??

Reply #98 –
Quote from: Baggers – on
Quote from: cookie2 – on
@Slugger
Tend to agree with you Slugger but I think a critical mass of good players is reached in a team when it is then able to carry a couple of lesser mortals, who can look better than they really are. An example for me would be say Josh Hunt who IMO is a very average player but looked adequate most of the time for the Cats, but also had some glaring lapses on occasions.

I think we are still probably still 2-3 quality players short of that critical point. With the advancing years of Scotto, Juddy and Waite we need to address this issue very soon, as we could fall back alarmingly pdq.


Love your work, Furry Biscuit.

It really is achieving that balance across the board where there is that (as you write) critical balance of above average and elite players (talls and meds and smalls).

Matt Clape would be another good example of an average dude who was in the right place at the right time ('95). McKenzie in '87 would be another.

Two excellent examples Baggers.
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: OPINION : Our Next Premiership - Without Judd & Co ??

Reply #99 –
Spent a bit of time with the (Collingwood supporting) uncle today. I reckon we should make Rene' Kink an assistant coaching offer he cannot refuse!!

Re: OPINION : Our Next Premiership - Without Judd & Co ??

Reply #100 –
Quote from: Gozza – on
Spent a bit of time with the (Collingwood supporting) uncle today. I reckon we should make Rene' Kink an assistant coaching offer he cannot refuse!!

Really ? The Hulk ?? Last I remember of him was a boxing match years ago.
This digital world is too much for us insects to understand.

Re: OPINION : Our Next Premiership - Without Judd & Co ??

Reply #101 –
Quote from: Mantis – on
Quote from: Gozza – on
Spent a bit of time with the (Collingwood supporting) uncle today. I reckon we should make Rene' Kink an assistant coaching offer he cannot refuse!!

Really ? The Hulk ?? Last I remember of him was a boxing match years ago.

Fat lump of sh1t is all I know him as. Uncle reckons he was that great. Seeing as our club is already mostly ex-Collingwood, surely one more wouldn't hurt.  ;D

Re: OPINION : Our Next Premiership - Without Judd & Co ??

Reply #102 –
Quote from: keogh – on
Quote from: Thryleon – on
Its all hindsight.

Judd brought more than just his own ability.  It has been mentioned the Juddite nature of the entire side, and it was public knowledge that our boys were unproffessional thanks the influences around them.

I would be willing to bet, that the majority of the group started lifting their game month by month since Judd arrived where before that, there was little improvement to be had in the group.

No amount of Dangerfields, Kennedy's or anything would have fixed that, as Nick Stevens ruled the roost, with Fevola just behind him.  They were the picture of everything that was culturally wrong about our football team, and the culture that Judd will have helped instill in our playing group will be one that lasts long after he is finished playing footy.

We dont know how much of this would have changed without him at the club, nor whether or not we would have been able to hang onto the blokes that have renewed their contracts since he arrived.


Disagree if the culture of the place was better then there is no need to have the best player coming to the club to fix the problem.

Thats cool Keogh.  Thats what forums are for, we agree to disagree.

IMHO We needed Judd.  We had no idea what we were doing, and we proved that when we unceremoniously decided to not back in a coach we signed on a 2 year contract one year into it.  Yes Malthouse was needed and he is further fixing up the culture of the place (read, the Judd move fixed the playing group in terms of their proffesionalism, but the club still had the old bring in the messiah complex and to a degree thats what got Malthouse here) but that seems to be more happy accident based on old Carlton logic than anything else.  We have another so-so year this year, and we might repeat our old errors and turf him out and try to lure the angry ant from Hawthorn over here.  No doubt once he is here he will be victimised in the media about his poor image and it will be yet another Carlton failing.

In a way, the best test of those who are responsible for the clubs daily operations will be if we have another so-so year.  It will really see what conviction they have to fix the place up.  They take the easy option and sack the coach again, and it will simply prove that we are the same old Carlton who failed to learn from its past mistakes.   We have a succesful year, and It might ratify the incorrect thought processes, and fail to test our board to really analyse our situation and come up with a plan to really improve the place.  Sure, i want a flag as bad as anyone but I would rather have a club that takes a holistic approach to mending the failings of the place and set it up for a sustained rise to the top that see's us become the benchmark of the competition again rather than a cheap Eddie Mcguire Collingwood knock off, that will win 2 flags in as many generations and might flail around wildly from then onwards based on the fact that they have pandered to the whims of an arrogant CEO and a former star player.

I understand that you think we didnt need Judd, but I am going to accuse you of not thinking it through.  Our recruiting was rubbish (and yet our developement is and was almost as bad).  Odds are we would have made the same decision with that #4 draft pick that West Coast did and recruited Chris Masten.  Handy player, but Kane Lucas is the same sort of player.

We needed Judd.  If our club culture was any good (proven that it wasnt) we would have had Brittain around the place still who would have sacked Fev for us, and perhaps when the AFL came down on us like a tonne of bricks, we might have come out the otherside in much better shape than we did.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson