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Topic: List Building - More than one way to skin a cat (Read 19105 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: List Building - More than one way to skin a cat

Reply #240 –
Ah the old, 'simply wasnt any talented talls available this year' argument. I hear that one most years.

Re: List Building - More than one way to skin a cat

Reply #241 –
They could have picked a tall at 28, and probably would have had Emmett slipped through. But when he went they traded the pick.
That probably is a fair indication they didn't rate any of the talls following.

Re: List Building - More than one way to skin a cat

Reply #242 –
Luckily it looks like we have finally thrown out "the formula", it's like our first step towards success.

The formulaic approach to recruitment and list management, tactics too, is just more of what everyone else does, and that just makes you achieve the average.
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: List Building - More than one way to skin a cat

Reply #243 –
Quote from: Lods – on
They could have picked a tall at 28, and probably would have had Emmett slipped through. But when he went they traded the pick.
That probably is a fair indication they didn't rate any of the talls following.

I flagged at the end of night 1 that we should trade up 3 spots to ensure we get 'our guy' whoever that may be. This is before we let someone else bid on ison ensuring it would allow us to get both.

Opportunity was there, it didn't happen, i can't buy that excuse.

Re: List Building - More than one way to skin a cat

Reply #244 –
Quote from: LP – on
Luckily it looks like we have finally thrown out "the formula", it's like our first step towards success.

The formulaic approach to recruitment and list management, tactics too, is just more of what everyone else does, and that just makes you achieve the average.

Thing with being average and changing the way you do things, it can also leave you further behind the rest as a result

Re: List Building - More than one way to skin a cat

Reply #245 –
Quote from: kruddler – on

I flagged at the end of night 1 that we should trade up 3 spots to ensure we get 'our guy' whoever that may be. This is before we let someone else bid on ison ensuring it would allow us to get both.

Opportunity was there, it didn't happen, i can't buy that excuse.

Of course you can't buy it.
Because we 'play' draft night (and the trade period also) in our minds and on keyboards and not in the 'real' world.
And in our world everything plays out to get the result we desire.

We have no idea of the discussion between clubs and only a vague, and often biased, knowledge of list management priorities for the night and how they affect the make up of a list for the following year and in the future.

We don't see or hear the talks between clubs (other than maybe some vague report that they are discussing a player or picks).
We don't see or hear the offers that club make on the night.
We don't know the offers to trade up or down that are rejected.
We arent privy to the phone calls.
We have absolutely no idea of other clubs strategies and priorities and why they would be willing to trade up or down a couple of spots (they may have an interest in exactly the same player).

If you can think of a scenario, a list management team has probably also thought of the same scenario, but with  much greater appreciation of the pros and cons... and the obstacles.

We look at a draft profile and see "Ooh, He's tall and he has more strengths than weaknesses, lets pick him!"
We don't spend hours observing these young players actually playing, and talking to them, which sometimes might reveal something other than playing ability, that might make a club hit pause on the player or overlook them completely.

And then we ask, WTF were they thinking :D  :D

Re: List Building - More than one way to skin a cat

Reply #246 –
As far as I know, none of us interviewed any of the young fellows who nominated for the draft or have watched most of their junior football careers either.

Taking a player in the draft is not a random, spontaneous, opportunistic decision by an individual.  It is a calculated, scenario-driven process by team of talent scouts, data analysts, strategists and list managers with dossiers on every potential draft pick.  They're also dealing with 17 other clubs who are equally determined to follow their strategies and won't agree to pick trades unless it's to their advantage.  A club can't simply "trade up" without convincing other clubs that it's in their interests to take part.  Do they get it wrong?  Of course they do, but nowhere near as often as footy fans like to think.

List management with the benefit of hindsight is easy.
"Negative waves are not helpful. Try saying something righteous and hopeful instead." Oddball

Re: List Building - More than one way to skin a cat

Reply #247 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
Ah the old, 'simply wasnt any talented talls available this year' argument. I hear that one most years.
No, not that at all.

The talls in this draft were of a relative standard of talent.  remember you wonder why a highly rated (or not highly) wasnt taken, cast your mind to some players.

1.  Sam Wiedemann and Scott Gumbleton, Matthew Watson.
2.  Nick Larkey Brodie Mihocek.

Ultimately, there is not telling what happens from drafted to playing at AFL level.


its not about their talent level.  The next Wayne Carey may very well have been selected in this draft, but for every one of those, there is plenty of examples of talent taken who never kick on. 

Thats not to say dont select one.  Ultimately I always think back to the draft where we took Pat Mccarthy, Luke Mitchell and Andrew Mccinnes as a reason to defer to a higher authority.

Maybe you have a better knowledge of the prospects.  For me, Ive seen maybe 8 minutes of footage of each player I advocate for us taking at the draft, and thats not really enough to know better than the guys employed to do this job.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: List Building - More than one way to skin a cat

Reply #248 –
The other draft I consider is the one that had the Rich vs Ziebell vs Yarran discussion.  Despite all the highly rated ability and capability of the players in this draft.  I think Jack Watts was taken before them, and Steele Sidebottom was the pick of the bunch.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: List Building - More than one way to skin a cat

Reply #249 –
If we want to keep Walsh we need to be competitive. 

Andre McInnes was a seriously good kid ruined by a knee.
McCarthy was ruined by a foot fracture.
Mitchell was not a smart pick, very strong but lacked pace and agility.
DrE is no more... you ok with that harmonica man?

Re: List Building - More than one way to skin a cat

Reply #250 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on
The other draft I consider is the one that had the Rich vs Ziebell vs Yarran discussion.  Despite all the highly rated ability and capability of the players in this draft.  I think Jack Watts was taken before them, and Steele Sidebottom was the pick of the bunch.

Yes, for all of the analysis and strategising that goes into determining who to pick, there’s the short and long games, and an element of luck.
"Negative waves are not helpful. Try saying something righteous and hopeful instead." Oddball

Re: List Building - More than one way to skin a cat

Reply #251 –
Quote from: Professer E – on
If we want to keep Walsh we need to be competitive.

Player retention is a huge part of list building, and something we’ve excelled at up till now.
"Negative waves are not helpful. Try saying something righteous and hopeful instead." Oddball

Re: List Building - More than one way to skin a cat

Reply #252 –
No one can comment on anything here then, shut the forum down.
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: List Building - More than one way to skin a cat

Reply #253 –
Quote from: madbluboy – on
No one can comment on anything here then, shut the forum down.

What are you talking about?
Everyone can raise points of discussion
Everyone else has the right to challenge those.
That's what discussion forums are all about.
Give an example of where people have been told they shouldn't comment.

If someone wants to use a set of figures, or a table, or a team sheet to make a point then they should be prepared for the point they are making to be challenged.
If someone find the challenges not to their liking pick another thread.
The code of conduct spells out actions and issues that may not be appropriate.


 

Re: List Building - More than one way to skin a cat

Reply #254 –
Kruddler goes to great effort to discuss list management and pulling out the old club knows more than you is just lazy and discourages people from participating.
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!