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Topic: List Building - More than one way to skin a cat (Read 22984 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: List Building - More than one way to skin a cat

Reply #285 –
Quote from: Lods – on
Quote from: kruddler – on


Potentially....but our previous one...

...was long gone.

The list position we found ourselves in was a combination of the efforts of both.
You can't have one without the other.
And two injury hit and disrupted seasons later you want the one left gone.

Crash mentioned 2002 but there was another injury hit season in 2014 when many of our best players including Judd and Kreuzer missed big chunks....and Robinson and Garlett went off the rails.
The brains trust at the time decided we needed a rebuild and the incoming list manager cut the list and sent the club into oblivion.

Hang on, we can't judge the current crop for years, but we can give them kudos for piggybacking on the previous guys efforts within a couple years??

Geez these goal posts are moving so often i don't even know which way i'm kicking now!

From a previous list....these players were NOT SOS's from 2023.....

Hewett
Saad
Cerra
Acres
Docherty - Before SOS
Cripps - Before SOS
O. Hollands
Motlop
Jordan Boyd
Cincotta

From that list, 2 are not by either.
1 is already delisted
2 are on the outs (Boyd and Acres)
...and Motlop was rumoured to be on the way out to PA this past trade period (Durdin got booted instead).

So yeah, SOS's team.

Re: List Building - More than one way to skin a cat

Reply #286 –
Hang on!
You can't have it both ways.
You can't say 2023 is SOS's team and then in the next breath say Austin has had six years.
The only one moving  goal posts around is your good self. ::)

All list managers build on their predecessors list to some extent.
Cripps and Docherty were part of that for Silvagni so was Ed Curnow
You can't just dismiss the players that Austin added for 2023.
And the real fruits of Austin's tenure are yet to hit their peak.

Re: List Building - More than one way to skin a cat

Reply #287 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
Quote from: Lods – on


So are you saying our list manager had built a side capable of winning a flag :D  :D

Potentially....but our previous one...
cant praise sos and condemn Austin when Saad, acres and cerra were the needle movers for us in 2023 and all of them were brought in by Austin. Could argue Hewett as well but we'll call him a dead heat with Kennedy.

They all had nothing to do with sos.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: List Building - More than one way to skin a cat

Reply #288 –
Quote from: Lods – on
Hang on!
You can't have it both ways.
You can't say 2023 is SOS's team and then in the next breath say Austin has had six years.
The only one moving  goal posts around is your good self. ::)

All list managers build on their predecessors list to some extent.
Cripps and Docherty were part of that for Silvagni so was Ed Curnow
You can't just dismiss the players that Austin added for 2023.
And the real fruits of Austin's tenure are yet to hit their peak.

lol.....i'm trying to follow YOUR rules and you won't let me.

If i'm trying to follow my rules, you wont let me.

Why am i not surprised.

Current list management team is infallable. Now i see the light.  ::)  ::)  ::)

Re: List Building - More than one way to skin a cat

Reply #289 –
You can follow any rules you like to make up. ;)
I don't control your posting.

But it's all pretty futile
You're not going to change my mind
I'm not going to change yours

I think we've both exhausted any arguments.
We seem to go over the same points over and over....across a number of threads
I'm not convinced by any of your arguments, although I can see the points you're trying to make.
I just don't agree with them.
I just see them as worst case....with little regard given to the issues that have impacted the club's performance the last two years.
You're obviously not convinced by any of mine.

You think we'll be worse
I think we'll be the same or better

Injuries will play a part.
Depth will play a part.
Luck will play a part.
Development of young players will play a part.
How we cover our losses will play a part.
How the new players gel will play a part.
Off field issues may play a part.

There are enough variables there that either one of us could end up right.
So it's over to the players to determine the outcome.

Re: List Building - More than one way to skin a cat

Reply #290 –
I note that we were rated as third most affected by injury to senior players in 2025, as just posted on afl.com.au. That in a season where we were a quantum leap better than what we were in 2024.

https://www.afl.com.au/news/1443396/essendon-bombers-horror-run-greater-western-sydney-giants-rise-which-clubs-were-unlucky-with-injuries

Now, if we can improve by the same amount in 2026, then maybe we'll have enough ammunition to argue about our list management properly. Certainly, we should play closer to our potential with a fitter list.
Live Long and Prosper!

Re: List Building - More than one way to skin a cat

Reply #291 –
Quote from: crashlander – on
I note that we were rated as third most affected by injury to senior players in 2025, as just posted on afl.com.au. That in a season where we were a quantum leap better than what we were in 2024.

https://www.afl.com.au/news/1443396/essendon-bombers-horror-run-greater-western-sydney-giants-rise-which-clubs-were-unlucky-with-injuries

Now, if we can improve by the same amount in 2026, then maybe we'll have enough ammunition to argue about our list management properly. Certainly, we should play closer to our potential with a fitter list.

That is about the most backwards way i've ever seen to calculate 'injuries'.

For instance, if Cripps got injured and missed the year, he wouldn't finish in the top 5 coaches votes, thus wouldn't be included in the list. The more injured you are, the less games you play, the less chance of getting you in the coaches votes meaning the less 'important' you are. Bollocks.
 

Re: List Building - More than one way to skin a cat

Reply #292 –
We actually agree on something. ;D

If you're not in it you can't win it.
Walsh must have made some impression in his 14 games
Weitering little in his 23.
Is Weitering injured a bigger loss than Cerra?
Coaches votes are also affected by the performance of the team
If the team suffers a loss, the number of players in the Coaches votes will be less than if the side wins.
There were probably half a dozen games where Carlton players wouldn't even have figured in the votes.

Edit: Just had a quick scan of the votes. (Quick scan- so I may have missed some votes)
There were several games where Carlton players didn't get votes.
Hewett polled in 10 games and nearly doubled the votes of any other Carlton player (56)
Cripps polled in 8 (for 27 votes)
Cerra (27 votes) De Koning (31), Walsh ( 34) and Weitering (22) all polled in five games.

As a tool to assess the impact and the effect of injuries I'm struggling to exactly understand the point they're trying to make.