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Poll

Who is the best 5 bench players to go with the existing lineup below?

*** currently vacant
*****Backline group*****2 - Lachie Cowan
3 - Jesse Motlop
4 - Oliver Hollands
*****Midfield group*****5 - Adam Cerra
*****Forwards group*****6 - Zac Williams
*****Midfield group*****7 - Jagga Smith
8 - Lachie Fogarty
*****Midfield group*****9 - Patrick Cripps
*****Forwards group*****10 - Harry McKay
11 - Mitch McGovern
*****Forwards group*****12 - Ben Ainsworth
13 - Blake Acres
14 - Ollie Florent
15 - Billy Wilson
16 - Ben Camporeale
*****Forwards group*****17 - Brodie Kemp
*****Midfield group*****18 - Sam Walsh
*****Forwards group*****19 - Will Hayward
***20 - Elijah Hollands - currently not on our list
21 - Lucas Camporeale
*****Backline group*****22 - Harry O'Farrell
*****Backline group*****23 - Jacob Weitering
*****Backline group*****24 - Nick Newman
25 - Liam Reidy
*****Backline group*****26 - Nick Haynes
*****Midfield group*****27 - Marc Pittonet
28 - Harry Charleson
*****Midfield group*****29 - George Hewitt
30 - Jack Ison
31 - Campbell Chesser
32 - Matthew Carroll
33 - Lewis Young
34 - Rob Monahan
35 - Harry Dean
36 - Cooper Lord
37 - Jordan Boyd
***38 - Will White - currently not on our list
39 - Talor Byrne
40 - Hudson O'Keeffe
41 - Matt Duffy
*****Backline group*****42 - Adam Saad
*****Forwards group*****43 - Ashton Moir
44 - Francis Evans
45 - Flynn Young
46 - Matt Cottrell
Topic: Pick our team in parts - Part 4 - 5 on the bench (Read 3186 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: Pick our team in parts - Part 4 - 5 on the bench

Reply #60 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
Quote from: DJC – on
Then there's the focus our list managers had on better ball users.  Fortunately, they know what they're doing :)
Talk about opinion with no facts.

Especially when you compare this with Sydney, who DO know what they are doing as they are one of the most successful teams of the past 2 decades.

The thing is that I'm not blinded by being self-opinionated about list management.  I accept that Austin, Agresta and their team know a hell of a lot more about list management than I do, and I know that two experienced operators in Wright and Davies have endorsed our list management strategy.  That's good enough for me.

Yes, Sydney has been a very successful club ... under Roos and Longmire.  When you consider their A-graders and the depth of their list, missing out on the eight in 2025 is inexplicable.  I wonder what's changed; it wouldn't be the coach who got hot flushes at the thought of Charlie in red and white?
"Negative waves are not helpful. Try saying something righteous and hopeful instead." Oddball

Re: Pick our team in parts - Part 4 - 5 on the bench

Reply #61 –
Either Ollie Florent has really fallen off a cliff, or else he generates sharply contrasting opinions in the Swans camp. In May 2024, he was awarded a 5 year deal to the end of 2029. When combined with the top 10 finishes in the B+F and the fact that he is rarely injured, there were clearly people at Sydney who really rated him. You don't give top 10's and 5 year deals to just anybody.

Re: Pick our team in parts - Part 4 - 5 on the bench

Reply #62 –
Quote from: Lods – on
Quote from: kruddler – on
You see my point in that there are issues with the 'improvement' theory as it ignores people going backwards and injuries. No 'pro improvement' argument or 'cover' argument takes that into account....or severly underestimates its impact.
Look at what it did to our team this year and last.

There's the logic you're looking for though.

The improvement theory is dependent on more postives 'coming in than going out'
Nobody would possibly suggest we won't be hit by injuries in 2026.
Some unexpected
Some long term.

The thing is to improve, we must have more positves coming in to combat the talent going out, if we are to be better in 2026 than 2025.
But here's the 'key'
We don't have to match TDK, Curnow and Silvagni at their best.
We only have to cover their 2025 output to be better.
At their best it's a huge challenge
At their 2025 best, especially Curnow, the challenge is not as great.

The reason for a bit of positivity?
The injury sutuation the last two years has been something else, and in 2025 it was exacerbated by a range of other challenges (mental health, division, players being offered huge money elsewhere.)
The injury situation matched some of our more critical times over the last 2025 years (2002, 2014)
It's possible we'll be hit hard again, but to have that type of turmoil three years in a row would suggest it's probably nothing within the range of mortals to fix, but rather a job for a 'witch doctor'.

Here's the thing though.

To cover the output of Charlie etc, we are 'expecting' the best from the incoming guys. The best output they can give. Even then, will that be enough to cover their output? Will a 1st year player in Dean be able to cover 10 years in the AFL system from SOJ?
Will a HFF and a FP be able to cover enough for a dual coleman medalist?
Who is covering for TDK?

Won't some of those players need to cover for other players who will be struck down by lack of form or injury? If those players are down on whats expected, who covers for them?

Shirt version in, we need the best of whats coming in, to cover for the worst of what we lost. Thats why i think we are destined to slide.

Re: Pick our team in parts - Part 4 - 5 on the bench

Reply #63 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
Quote from: Lods – on


There's the logic you're looking for though.

The improvement theory is dependent on more postives 'coming in than going out'
Nobody would possibly suggest we won't be hit by injuries in 2026.
Some unexpected
Some long term.

The thing is to improve, we must have more positves coming in to combat the talent going out, if we are to be better in 2026 than 2025.
But here's the 'key'
We don't have to match TDK, Curnow and Silvagni at their best.
We only have to cover their 2025 output to be better.
At their best it's a huge challenge
At their 2025 best, especially Curnow, the challenge is not as great.

The reason for a bit of positivity?
The injury sutuation the last two years has been something else, and in 2025 it was exacerbated by a range of other challenges (mental health, division, players being offered huge money elsewhere.)
The injury situation matched some of our more critical times over the last 2025 years (2002, 2014)
It's possible we'll be hit hard again, but to have that type of turmoil three years in a row would suggest it's probably nothing within the range of mortals to fix, but rather a job for a 'witch doctor'.

Here's the thing though.

To cover the output of Charlie etc, we are 'expecting' the best from the incoming guys. The best output they can give. Even then, will that be enough to cover their output? Will a 1st year player in Dean be able to cover 10 years in the AFL system from SOJ?
Will a HFF and a FP be able to cover enough for a dual coleman medalist?
Who is covering for TDK?

Won't some of those players need to cover for other players who will be struck down by lack of form or injury? If those players are down on whats expected, who covers for them?

Shirt version in, we need the best of whats coming in, to cover for the worst of what we lost. Thats why i think we are destined to slide.

You're still focusing on one for one replacements and missing the big picture. 

We don't have to find a player to be like Charlie; we need to come up with a combination of players and a forward structure that works better than our forward line did in 2025.  We've got that with the addition of Hayward and Ainsworth, the return of Kemp, the development of Skull and Moir, Williams and Motlop in form, the emergence of Ison and better ball movement.

Harry Dean doesn't have to cover Jack's 10 years in the system, or his 12 games as a KPD; he simply needs to fit into a defensive combination that improves on our 9th ranked defence from last season.  That's the easiest challenge, particularly with Newey coming back from injury and Florent bringing talent, form, energy and great ball movement.

Again, we don't need to cover TDK; we need to come up with a midfield combination that's better than last season's.  Pitto is a perfectly adequate ruckman and Reidy is a bit of a surprise packet.  Skull and Harry are fine as part-time rucks, Jagga Smith looks like he's going to have a real impact, Acres looks like he's over his back complaint.

Forget about Tom, Jack and Charlie; they're the past.  Embrace the exciting new future!

"Negative waves are not helpful. Try saying something righteous and hopeful instead." Oddball
 

Re: Pick our team in parts - Part 4 - 5 on the bench

Reply #64 –
Quote from: kruddler – on
Quote from: Lods – on


There's the logic you're looking for though.

The improvement theory is dependent on more postives 'coming in than going out'
Nobody would possibly suggest we won't be hit by injuries in 2026.
Some unexpected
Some long term.

The thing is to improve, we must have more positves coming in to combat the talent going out, if we are to be better in 2026 than 2025.
But here's the 'key'
We don't have to match TDK, Curnow and Silvagni at their best.
We only have to cover their 2025 output to be better.
At their best it's a huge challenge
At their 2025 best, especially Curnow, the challenge is not as great.

The reason for a bit of positivity?
The injury sutuation the last two years has been something else, and in 2025 it was exacerbated by a range of other challenges (mental health, division, players being offered huge money elsewhere.)
The injury situation matched some of our more critical times over the last 2025 years (2002, 2014)
It's possible we'll be hit hard again, but to have that type of turmoil three years in a row would suggest it's probably nothing within the range of mortals to fix, but rather a job for a 'witch doctor'.

Here's the thing though.

To cover the output of Charlie etc, we are 'expecting' the best from the incoming guys. The best output they can give.

No, we don't. Just 'saying' it doesn't make it true. We just have to have them contribute goals, present and provide options....and something else Charlie couldn't give us much of this year...second and defensive efforts. Keep the ball in the forward line.

Even then, will that be enough to cover their output?
"We'll see how it pans out but it won't be 'all or nothing'. Even if it can't entirely match Charlie's 2025 output it will go a fair way.

Will a 1st year player in Dean be able to cover 10 years in the AFL system from SOJ?

We don't know...He may give us a complete season and by the end be a 'fixture in the side. He comes with bigger wraps than Harry O'Farrell who would be in many posters best side. As to whether his durability is better than Jack's...TBA

Will a HFF and a FP be able to cover enough for a dual coleman medalist?
Maybe not, but I'll back them to cover for a 32 goal KPF

Who is covering for TDK?
One of O'Keefe, Reidy and Pittonet will take care of the ruck part
The around the ground/contest stuff will be absorbed by mid-fielders.
It won't be several players replacing one player because they will also bring their own strengths to those positions
It will be 'absorbed' not replaced 'like for like.'

Won't some of those players need to cover for other players who will be struck down by lack of form or injury? If those players are down on whats expected, who covers for them?

And that's where the depth comes into play. We struggled to cover for injuries the last two years and the VFL team was a shadow of it's full strength at times. We enter 2026 in much better shape to cover absences in most positions.

Shirt version in, we need the best of whats coming in, to cover for the worst of what we lost. Thats why i think we are destined to slide.

See, that's exactly what you've been upset about in reverse (players out superstars-players in duds). Why rate it as a 'crap' version before you've even seen how they fit in?  Again, they don't have to provide their best. What they need to do is fill a role, contribute and enhance the total package. Think less in terms of the individual and more in terms of how it all comes together as a unit.

...and that's one of the big issues here.
2025 has been and gone. We know what happened with injuries and shenanigans. It's history and can't be changed
2026 hasn't been 'written' yet.
And as with any season there will be some unexpected, disappointing times next year.
But there will probably also be positives that we may not even expect yet.
Sometimes a change of scenery for a player, new roles and responsibilities, a different game plan etc all may see a player produce something better than he has shown previously.
Of course the opposite is also true and a player may struggle to fit in.

Re: Pick our team in parts - Part 4 - 5 on the bench

Reply #65 –
The vast majority of non Carlton supporters expect us to struggle in 2026.
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!