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Where will we finish?

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Voting closes: March 05, 2026, 09:53:57 am

Topic: Where will Carlton finish? (Read 1411 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: Where will Carlton finish?

Reply #60 –
Quote from: madbluboy – on
Quote from: shawny – on


He's coached 4 full years and in year 5 we set him up to fail?  He has had one successful season with us.

Prior he coached Brisbane for 4 and half years won an EF in year one and then had 3 and half poor seasons after.

Hardly a glowing resume.  


We have lost a number of senior players the last 2 years and replaced them with kids for the most part. List management is looking to the future and have closed this era prematurely. That's not on Voss..


Who are the senior player lost in the last 2 years and replaced with kids?

Charlie and TDK are big loses but he had them for the past 4 years. 

Re: Where will Carlton finish?

Reply #61 –
I spent time on this forum and others listening to fans spend most of the last couple of seasons complaining about the lack of performance and consistency from the likes of Curnow and TDK, punctuated by glimpses of genuine capability, now that they are gone they are all of a sudden irreplaceable.

Weathervanes come to mind!

Both players come to mind as examples of huge potential and capability, but I'm not going to sell anybody on their consistency, the players we've lost are about as far away from the 24x7 level of a fit Cripps or Walsh, as Cliffy Young is from Phar Lap in a sprint!

We don't have enough 24x7 types to be carrying too many part-timers, and they are big dollar part-timers. If Curnow, TDK and SoJ were 24x7 types, on the park week after week delivering at a consistent level, even consistent at a good ordinary level like a Hewett or an Evans, I'd be more upset. But they weren't, and that is probably a big reason why we didn't stand in their way!

"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Where will Carlton finish?

Reply #62 –
Are the fans the same fans LP?
2012 HAPPENED!!!!!!!

Re: Where will Carlton finish?

Reply #63 –
Quote from: LP – on
I spent time on this forum and others listening to fans spend most of the last couple of seasons complaining about the lack of performance and consistency from the likes of Curnow and TDK, punctuated by glimpses of genuine capability, now that they are gone they are all of a sudden irreplaceable.

Certainly not irreplaceable.
But put simply, we didn't replace them.
Big difference.

Re: Where will Carlton finish?

Reply #64 –
Voss hasnt changed since his Brisbane days, same game plan, same player exodus issues and Daniel Bradshaw was reincarnated as Matt Kennedy before he received his holy marching orders and was excommunicated from the flock  . Its Dejavu so far with only the ending to come, will it be any different than 2013?
I have noticed that a few of the Voss and List spruikers are now lowering the bar and happy to accept missing finals in 2026, what happened to the new improved list, new football manager and new director of coaching? Surely there are no more excuses?
I have spent the last few months reading on the forum how TDK, Charlie and Jacks leaving was a blessing and they were holding back the club and how the new players have made us a much better team but that all seems to be changing since we are getting closer to the first round and those ultra positive supporters caught up in the hype are now in full retreat...
 

Re: Where will Carlton finish?

Reply #65 –
Quote from: shawny – on
Quote from: Thryleon – on
I can see a situation where the coach isnt winning and then retains his position.  Its all about how they go about doing their job, and how we are doing.

If the wheels are falling off, then its bad, but if we are competitive but not quite displaying the ability to secure 4 points then he can probably keep the job regardless of results.

Sometimes there's more to it than the end result which is what coaches get judged on.

la la land mate. Its a performance based industry.

While many say its wrong to look too far back when making current day decisions the fact is the supporters members sponsors etc are starved of success and have been very very patient. Most are all tired of all talk all the waiting all the spin. Voss has had a decent block to impress with what many think was a decent list - we had one good (a tad lucky) finals run in his tenure and that is simply not good enough despite the wrath of excuses the Voss believers want to throw up.

Its finals as a min in 2026 or he is gonski.
 

 

Performance or result?  You can play poorly and get a result, and you can play well and not get the result.

The two are often correlated but they dont always. 


The question i have is, will changes guarantee any outcome other than change?

If we arent expected to win, but fall short against sydney by less than a kick, is it a fail?
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson

Re: Where will Carlton finish?

Reply #66 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Voss hasnt changed since his Brisbane days, same game plan, same player exodus issues and Daniel Bradshaw was reincarnated as Matt Kennedy before he received his holy marching orders and was excommunicated from the flock  . Its Dejavu so far with only the ending to come, will it be any different than 2013?
I have noticed that a few of the Voss and List spruikers are now lowering the bar and happy to accept missing finals in 2026, what happened to the new improved list, new football manager and new director of coaching? Surely there are no more excuses?
I have spent the last few months reading on the forum how TDK, Charlie and Jacks leaving was a blessing and they were holding back the club and how the new players have made us a much better team but that all seems to be changing since we are getting closer to the first round and those ultra positive supporters caught up in the hype are now in full retreat...

I think you've misread some of the positivity.
I don't think too many were suggesting flags or even top 4.
It was more a case of around the same mark...11th or a couple of spots better.
Now even one spot higher (10th) and we're playing finals in 2026.

What people were saying is we don't need to drop dramatically as some of the doomsayers were predicting.

Re: Where will Carlton finish?

Reply #67 –
Quote from: Lods – on
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Voss hasnt changed since his Brisbane days, same game plan, same player exodus issues and Daniel Bradshaw was reincarnated as Matt Kennedy before he received his holy marching orders and was excommunicated from the flock  . Its Dejavu so far with only the ending to come, will it be any different than 2013?
I have noticed that a few of the Voss and List spruikers are now lowering the bar and happy to accept missing finals in 2026, what happened to the new improved list, new football manager and new director of coaching? Surely there are no more excuses?
I have spent the last few months reading on the forum how TDK, Charlie and Jacks leaving was a blessing and they were holding back the club and how the new players have made us a much better team but that all seems to be changing since we are getting closer to the first round and those ultra positive supporters caught up in the hype are now in full retreat...

I think you've misread some of the positivity.
I don't think too many were suggesting flags or even top 4.
It was more a case of around the same mark...11th or a couple of spots better.
Now even one spot higher (10th) and we're playing finals in 2026.

What people were saying is we don't need to drop dramatically as some of the doomsayers were predicting.
If the List was improved as was/is the support staff surely then the results have to improve ie win/loss ratio?....the new mickey mouse( nearly everyone plays finals format) doesnt count for me as I said it all about wins/losses and genuine improvement.
No one is expecting premierships or top 4 but the bar cant be 10 or 11, its got to be top 8 after a serious rebuild. There has to be a level of accountability after 5 years in the job and your second stint as an AFL senior coach imo where you should have the experience to deliver more than what we have seen so far.

Re: Where will Carlton finish?

Reply #68 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Quote from: Lods – on


I think you've misread some of the positivity.
I don't think too many were suggesting flags or even top 4.
It was more a case of around the same mark...11th or a couple of spots better.
Now even one spot higher (10th) and we're playing finals in 2026.

What people were saying is we don't need to drop dramatically as some of the doomsayers were predicting.
If the List was improved as was/is the support staff surely then the results have to improve ie win/loss ratio?....the new mickey mouse( nearly everyone plays finals format) doesnt count for me as I said it all about wins/losses and genuine improvement.
No one is expecting premierships or top 4 but the bar cant be 10 or 11, its got to be top 8 after a serious rebuild. There has to be a level of accountability after 5 years in the job and your second stint as an AFL senior coach imo where you should have the experience to deliver more than what we have seen so far.

For me top 8 would be slightly above expectations.
It would be hard to not renew Voss at that level (unless we lost our wild-card game) ::)

Re: Where will Carlton finish?

Reply #69 –
AFL is a different competition now, you can play OK for 2/3rds of the season and win a flag, you just need to get the timing right.

To me this is a fundamental change in the way you have to go about measuring yourself against the competition, you can flirt with form nursing the squad through the season, and just get it ripe and loaded for 2 or 3 games at the end.

What you can't do anymore is the MM type full season grind, you'll run out of legs, you have to find ways to lighten the load periodically and still be in a position to win. I don't care that we've Cripps and Walsh, until I can see an alternative to the heavily contested style my jury is out on Voss, our MC needs to find a way to win without those guys or without the heavy contest week in and week out. Playing that game style relentlessly just because they are the best at it is dumb!
"Extremists on either side will always meet in the Middle!"

Re: Where will Carlton finish?

Reply #70 –
Quote from: Lods – on
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on

If the List was improved as was/is the support staff surely then the results have to improve ie win/loss ratio?....the new mickey mouse( nearly everyone plays finals format) doesnt count for me as I said it all about wins/losses and genuine improvement.
No one is expecting premierships or top 4 but the bar cant be 10 or 11, its got to be top 8 after a serious rebuild. There has to be a level of accountability after 5 years in the job and your second stint as an AFL senior coach imo where you should have the experience to deliver more than what we have seen so far.

For me top 8 would be slightly above expectations.
It would be hard to not renew Voss at that level (unless we lost our wild-card game) ::)
I would view a top 8 finish as renewal consideration for two years and I would be expecting 10-12 wins which is a reasonable target imho given we won nine games last season. Im not expecting miracles just a level of improvement, of course as we all know in these situations there may only be a 12 game period for Voss to be judged as clubs start looking and talking to prospective replacements as early as mid season to secure their first choices so its imperative for Voss that the players start the season well and he has a positive win/loss ratio leading into the mid season break as its often too late even with back end of the season wins to save your job.

Re: Where will Carlton finish?

Reply #71 –
Quote from: Thryleon – on
Quote from: shawny – on


la la land mate. Its a performance based industry.

While many say its wrong to look too far back when making current day decisions the fact is the supporters members sponsors etc are starved of success and have been very very patient. Most are all tired of all talk all the waiting all the spin. Voss has had a decent block to impress with what many think was a decent list - we had one good (a tad lucky) finals run in his tenure and that is simply not good enough despite the wrath of excuses the Voss believers want to throw up.

Its finals as a min in 2026 or he is gonski.
 

 

Performance or result?  You can play poorly and get a result, and you can play well and not get the result.

The two are often correlated but they dont always. 


The question i have is, will changes guarantee any outcome other than change?

If we arent expected to win, but fall short against sydney by less than a kick, is it a fail?

Nope not good enough. a loss is a fail simple as that.

Arent you tired of honourable loses? 

We were accustomed to accept them in the bolton green shoots years.

this list is not young and while i dont believe its good enough to push the best teams imo we cant just keep accepting mediocrity.

The best teams never do. 

Re: Where will Carlton finish?

Reply #72 –
Quote from: shawny – on
Quote from: Thryleon – on


Performance or result?  You can play poorly and get a result, and you can play well and not get the result.

The two are often correlated but they dont always. 


The question i have is, will changes guarantee any outcome other than change?

If we arent expected to win, but fall short against sydney by less than a kick, is it a fail?

Nope not good enough. a loss is a fail simple as that.

Arent you tired of honourable loses? 

We were accustomed to accept them in the bolton green shoots years.

this list is not young and while i dont believe its good enough to push the best teams imo we cant just keep accepting mediocrity.

The best teams never do. 


last time I got tired of honourable losses we started getting thrashed instead.

For me, the result is an outcome.  Only one team can win.

The how they perform is the input.

For you its results.  Out or else.  I respect that.

I just see it differently.   Jurgen klopp coached liverpool from 2015 to 2024.  During those 9 years, the team won one premiership.   They achieved a lot outside winning those titles.  He was beaten to the premiership on no less than 4 occasions by a team that simply got better results and was better resourced.  He potentially would tweak a thing or two to try change it if you asked him, but as a fan, he was remarkable as a coach despite not winning it all. 

Don't let impatience get the better of you.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson
 

Re: Where will Carlton finish?

Reply #73 –
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Voss hasnt changed since his Brisbane days, same game plan, same player exodus issues and Daniel Bradshaw was reincarnated as Matt Kennedy before he received his holy marching orders and was excommunicated from the flock  . Its Dejavu so far with only the ending to come, will it be any different than 2013?
I have noticed that a few of the Voss and List spruikers are now lowering the bar and happy to accept missing finals in 2026, what happened to the new improved list, new football manager and new director of coaching? Surely there are no more excuses?
I have spent the last few months reading on the forum how TDK, Charlie and Jacks leaving was a blessing and they were holding back the club and how the new players have made us a much better team but that all seems to be changing since we are getting closer to the first round and those ultra positive supporters caught up in the hype are now in full retreat...
 

This optimistic supporter is not in full retreat, EB1 old son. Nuh. Not bullish though. Powder dry, kind of optimistic... sprinkled with an acknowledgement of the unknown. And that's what we are now, somewhat an unknown entity due to strong change in personnel and what will be a change in some aspects of our game plan.

Our weakness under Vossy is as you point out - "contest and pressure is all you need, then kick it to the two tall forwards and everything will magically fall into place."

Change has been forced upon us with the departure of 'the three.' It seems we've adapted to that change well... got some leg speed, disposal skills and a multi-dimensional forward set up.

Though not in the prediction business, I would not be at all surprised to see us jump up the ladder and be a much better side than last year. In fact, I renewed my membership optimistically!
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: Where will Carlton finish?

Reply #74 –
It's interesting looking at the poll
We've had the "Chicken little" predictions and some "pie in the sky" predictions over the off-season, but inthe end mostly we're settling into expecting a ladder position that is either a few spots up or a few spots down from 2025

And those sort of fluctuations will almost solely be determined by luck and injury.